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View Full Version : This is why I fail to understand how anyone can support abortion.


liebherk
01-28-2006, 08:45 PM
http://www.govideonow.com/LL/Hard_Truth.wmv

this... made me cry.

Anyone who isn't affected by this has no soul.

Wulfy
01-28-2006, 08:59 PM
abortion is murder
if you didnt want a kid then whyd you %^$* him without protection

fat_poser
01-28-2006, 09:01 PM
Made me cry also. I am against abortion, but also against anti-abortion legislation.

This video however, is fucking terrible. Horrible attempt at making a point by substituting disturbing images for fact. I mean it might as well have been made by PETA, even as a vegan their videos of animals getting slaughtered piss me off, I fucking hate when rather than try to make an argument they just show you some gross shit.

Popwar Pill
01-28-2006, 09:02 PM
condoms arent 100% effective (or affective i never can tell which to use) but anyway i just jumped around to parts on that cause i didnt want to see kids getting murdered for close to 7min. but in the middle of it where the baby gets scrambled and theres blood everywhere kinda made me want to bring my spicey chicken tenders up. and the part with the skull and the eye popped out that wasnt one for a christmas card. at this church theres this huge monument(sp) and it says "To all those young lives lost to abortion" i thought it was pretty deep. but then again its the parents choice not ours.

liebherk
01-28-2006, 09:07 PM
Made me cry also. I am against abortion, but also against anti-abortion legislation.

This video however, is fucking terrible. Horrible attempt at making a point by substituting disturbing images for fact. I mean it might as well have been made by PETA, even as a vegan their videos of animals getting slaughtered piss me off, I fucking hate when rather than try to make an argument they just show you some gross shit.

I hear ya.

timorousme
01-28-2006, 09:45 PM
Almost made me puke, but not cry.

Also, take note that this video is obviously a pro-life video, meaning that they'll find the worse bits of video that they can find. Those abortions shown obviously were after the fetus has been well developed. Over 90% of all abortions are performed before this stage. And those that are done after are usually done because they know that the baby will die during pregnany or birth, the mother will die during birth, or the baby will die days or hours after birth, so it is safe to say that a majority of those shown would have survived at the most a few days after birth. I am against second and third trimester abortions unless it is because of one of the three reasons mentioned above or the woman was pregnant because of rape.

Biased videos are never good in my opinion, even if I agree with the video.

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
01-28-2006, 10:13 PM
Anyone who is for abortion is a mindless asshole who's only cares in life are what makes them feel good unstead of taking responsibility for thier mistakes.



Pro-choice my ass. Its not your pro-choice when the person who suffers isn't the person making the choice.

ryce
01-28-2006, 11:58 PM
Anyone who is for abortion is a mindless asshole who's only cares in life are what makes them feel good unstead of taking responsibility for thier mistakes.



Pro-choice my ass. Its not your pro-choice when the person who suffers isn't the person making the choice.

I probably could not have said that better myself.

Yeah, this video really made me feel terrible. Life's such a precious gift....why would somebody want to take that away? How can people be so low and selfish?

Vivica
01-29-2006, 01:21 AM
Made me cry also. I am against abortion, but also against anti-abortion legislation.

This video however, is fucking terrible. Horrible attempt at making a point by substituting disturbing images for fact. I mean it might as well have been made by PETA, even as a vegan their videos of animals getting slaughtered piss me off, I fucking hate when rather than try to make an argument they just show you some gross shit.

sums up my views nicely.

anybody who says people arn't allowed abortions are fucking retarded.

and that video is stupid.

matty_h
01-29-2006, 05:05 AM
Personally i'm against abortion i mean if they don't want to take care of the baby give up for adoption at least that why it'll have a life. I'm also believe that people should be able to make their own choices, but i fail to comprehend why they would choose to take a life away when there are other options.

Klausfloride
01-29-2006, 05:40 AM
yeahbut those aren'tmost abortions. most people get them very early and where ts nothing but a zygote. it has not yet begun to live. And while were talking about the vegan stuff, how come when one baby dies everyone is in pandomniom and when millions of aniamls are brutally murdered people seem not to mind. it wouldbe defirentif they were killed, but they aren't, they are fucked form birth.

Klausfloride
01-29-2006, 05:53 AM
Well i watched it but stillhavesomethingto say. Alldocumentaries are one sided. Ivenever said here, but in lifei have countless times that their are two sides to everything. Okay on abortion. i will agree with you "conveinece" abortion is disgusting and only sick fucks would do just as a method of bith control. People should have the responsibility to protect themselves. But on the other hand what if a girl was raped? this happens millions of times each year, so i think in that cases abortion would be the answere. Or lets say on couple, have been abstenent(sp) for awhile and decide to have sex for one time. the condom breaks and she gets pregnant. Well they are below the poverty line and can barely support them selves. So what is better, killing an embreo early on, or havingthe baby staveing to death, or say they were junkies, and the baby died from neglect(like in trainspotting).

And also tobe fairi have to say something on the PETA videos. PETA is stupid amd themembers are vegatarien for all the wrong reasons. THey just like to be veiwed as for caring and they proably don't even know what happens in slaughter houses(dumbass were probaly told they skin puppeys). Im vegatarian but for differemnt reasons. They point is that i see noting wrong with killing aniamls if you need it. But the fact is that in the time we live in mass-slaughter is nothing butm mass-slaughter. These animals are pumped with hormones from birth then unhumaley slaughtered. The workers see them as nothing more then products, they spend less money as possible even if it means "desposeing" of "useless" animals by killing them with their bare hands. They are animals not products, thats why you can justify eating fish, fishlive free till one unlucky day they are caught and die quickly. And if they are to small or sick, they are thrwon back, but if a ig is he is slamed head first on the pavement.

So yeah thats all i had to say, and i apologize for ant typos or spacing errors. my key board sticks

timorousme
01-29-2006, 06:53 AM
Anyone who is for abortion is a mindless asshole who's only cares in life are what makes them feel good unstead of taking responsibility for thier mistakes.



Pro-choice my ass. Its not your pro-choice when the person who suffers isn't the person making the choice.

Who's suffering? The fetus can't feel pain until about 12-14 weeks (three months)(first trimester), and, as I said before, over 90% of abortions are performed before that. So, at what point in these 90% is the fetus suffering?

peace_child
01-29-2006, 08:55 AM
I'm half and half on abortion. I think that if someone was raped and didn't want a baby in the first place, then its their choice. But if someone was careless and went ahead without a condom, then they should put the baby up for adoption. Then again, I'm a guy, so its not my place to say what pregnant women should or should not do.

timorousme
01-29-2006, 10:51 AM
I'm half and half on abortion. I think that if someone was raped and didn't want a baby in the first place, then its their choice. But if someone was careless and went ahead without a condom, then they should put the baby up for adoption. Then again, I'm a guy, so its not my place to say what pregnant women should or should not do.

It sounds good initially, but how could anybody possibly know if she was a rape victom or a condom broke or she's having the Christ child or whatever the case is or if she was "just careless" as you said?

Speed Demon
01-29-2006, 01:09 PM
Who's suffering? The fetus can't feel pain until about 12-14 weeks (three months)(first trimester), and, as I said before, over 90% of abortions are performed before that. So, at what point in these 90% is the fetus suffering?

Did he say the baby was physically suffering? No, the fetus suffers because he never gets to have a life. Have you ever heard the song "Keeping of Rocking in the Free World" by Neil Young? Lemme take a quote from it:

"Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool."

Basically sums up my views on abortion. The only way i support abortion is for rape victims, but then again they could fight and scream to get away but then again there are technicalities with Chloroform (sp?) and such. But they also have pills called Day After Pills. But for retards who have sex with out protection, i have no sympathy.

timorousme
01-29-2006, 02:02 PM
Did he say the baby was physically suffering? No, the fetus suffers because he never gets to have a life. Have you ever heard the song "Keeping of Rocking in the Free World" by Neil Young? Lemme take a quote from it:

"Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool."

Basically sums up my views on abortion. The only way i support abortion is for rape victims, but then again they could fight and scream to get away but then again there are technicalities with Chloroform (sp?) and such. But they also have pills called Day After Pills. But for retards who have sex with out protection, i have no sympathy.

If it's dead, it's not suffering.

Speed Demon
01-29-2006, 06:10 PM
If it wasn't dead, it would have a chance to have a life. We have NO right to take away a fetus's chance of life. It's like playing God. It's as if you've never skateboarded but your parents wouldn't let you anyway and told you you were to never skateboard, well you didn't suffer not being able to skateboard because you never experienced how fun it was to do it, but now that you do it your happy you skateboard and happy you made the choice of skateboarding. Excately like a fetus, doesn't suffer because it never experienced life but i bet you that it would have rather had a life then to have never had one.

We have no right to take away someones life/chance of life. Period.

timorousme
01-29-2006, 06:29 PM
If it wasn't dead, it would have a chance to have a life. We have NO right to take away a fetus's chance of life. It's like playing God. It's as if you've never skateboarded but your parents wouldn't let you anyway and told you you were to never skateboard, well you didn't suffer not being able to skateboard because you never experienced how fun it was to do it, but now that you do it your happy you skateboard and happy you made the choice of skateboarding. Excately like a fetus, doesn't suffer because it never experienced life but i bet you that it would have rather had a life then to have never had one.

We have no right to take away someones life/chance of life. Period.

So I'm right... It doesn't suffer. And if it were me, I'd rather be dead than have parents that never wanted me alive in the first place. Living through that would be the real suffering.

peace_child
01-29-2006, 06:39 PM
So I'm right... It doesn't suffer. And if it were me, I'd rather be dead than have parents that never wanted me alive in the first place. Living through that would be the real suffering.

I agree with that thought.

Speed Demon
01-29-2006, 07:31 PM
Sure it doesn't suffer, what do you want a medal now.

Well thats you, and you made that choice, no one made it for you so you just proved my point that you should make that point and no one should make it for you. If you don't like your life then you can take it, at least you made that choice, you had the chance to see if you wanted it and if you don't then you can take it. But what if your put up for a adoption and you get a family that really loves you and you get a good life. Well you have a choice to take your life and you didn't because you wanted to keep it. We should let them have the choice, we shouldn't choose for them.

timorousme
01-30-2006, 02:24 AM
Sure it doesn't suffer, what do you want a medal now.

Well thats you, and you made that choice, no one made it for you so you just proved my point that you should make that point and no one should make it for you. If you don't like your life then you can take it, at least you made that choice, you had the chance to see if you wanted it and if you don't then you can take it. But what if your put up for a adoption and you get a family that really loves you and you get a good life. Well you have a choice to take your life and you didn't because you wanted to keep it. We should let them have the choice, we shouldn't choose for them.

Alright... Sounds good. Let's let the children grow to make their own decisions and let them kill themselves.

And if I may quote you. "Excately like a fetus, doesn't suffer because it never experienced life but i bet you that it would have rather had a life then to have never had one."

How did my post saying that it wouldn't rather live prove your point?

ShIfty:)
01-30-2006, 02:56 AM
i think that abortions should be allowed, but they shouldnt be used in cases of carelessness, if it happned to me i dont think i could bring myself to kil my own child, but at the same time, i beleive that the final choice should lie with the mother, because she will in most cases have the most phisical and emotional contact with the baby

Pathtek4
01-30-2006, 03:03 AM
If your pro-life your still pro-choice...You just chose life...

sk8 dude
01-30-2006, 03:27 AM
Sure it doesn't suffer, what do you want a medal now.

Well thats you, and you made that choice, no one made it for you so you just proved my point that you should make that point and no one should make it for you. If you don't like your life then you can take it, at least you made that choice, you had the chance to see if you wanted it and if you don't then you can take it. But what if your put up for a adoption and you get a family that really loves you and you get a good life. Well you have a choice to take your life and you didn't because you wanted to keep it. We should let them have the choice, we shouldn't choose for them.

actually, if the fetus was born and happened to ne christian then it could not kill itself, or could, but would suffer all eternity, burnign eternal. And that's probably what they'd wnat to do, when they find out they're the product of rape.

HabitatSkater
01-30-2006, 05:54 AM
Would it make you feel better if I punched my wife in the ovaries so that we don't run the risk of her getting pregnant and getting an abortion.

liebherk
01-30-2006, 08:28 AM
Would it make you feel better if I punched my wife in the ovaries so that we don't run the risk of her getting pregnant and getting an abortion.

if she's ok with it... :weird:

mostly what I'm against/digusted by is convenience abortions.

sk8er person
01-30-2006, 09:09 AM
my opinion is that abortion is wrong. you are taking away a persons life when they have the same right to life as you do . you used to be a featus we all did and imagine what it would be like if they had an abortion, you wouldnt be skating or being on this site because you would be dead and never have had the chance to live a life even if the baby was only alive for a few days it never would have had the chance to experience life and every one has the right to live . but thats my opinion its up to you what you think.

peace and skate on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mkcrank mulisha
01-30-2006, 12:19 PM
Eh that vid had no effect on me except for nausea. People should try to make more real statments then bloody trash bags full of unborn babies.

Klausfloride
01-30-2006, 12:38 PM
if she's ok with it... :weird:

mostly what I'm against/digusted by is convenience abortions.
yeah my thought. I don't mind if you get in a scramble and you have to abort a uborn fetus, i see nothing morally wrong. But people that just use it as a means of birth control is disgusting. I don't see why you can abort so late,t hats disgusting casue a couple months into pregancy that is a human, but early on its noithing mroe then a egg with semen in it.






carring babies to the river

timorousme
01-30-2006, 03:02 PM
yeah my thought. I don't mind if you get in a scramble and you have to abort a uborn fetus, i see nothing morally wrong. But people that just use it as a means of birth control is disgusting. I don't see why you can abort so late,t hats disgusting casue a couple months into pregancy that is a human, but early on its noithing mroe then a egg with semen in it.






carring babies to the river

Like I said, in most late cases, the baby's going to die or the mother is going to die. If abortions were illegal, the mother would have to carry a dead baby for nine months and give birth to it. How that's right, I don't know. Talk about suffering.

Hippopotamus
01-30-2006, 09:48 PM
that was propoganda in it's most effective but least sensible form


sure, nobody wants to see dead babies, but that doesn't make me jump to conclusions



simpletons

tubbyturd
01-31-2006, 07:16 AM
wow, that video had absolutely no effect on me. I've always thought that abortions should be legal up until a certain point in the pregnancy (12-ish weeks).

lutzkasong
01-31-2006, 07:24 AM
That was utterly disgusting.

Blindskater444
01-31-2006, 09:50 AM
im not with or against abortion cause if ur condom is defective n ur girlfreind got pregnate u mite just change sides

Blindskater444
01-31-2006, 11:14 AM
and 1 more thing

u just filled my head with the most discusting images ive ever seen

i wounldt be abile 2 sleep for a week >:O

tubbyturd
01-31-2006, 12:33 PM
One of my ex-girlfriends got an abortion. Her doctor neglected to tell her that some of the antibiotics she was taking would interfere with her birth control.

Smooth as Sandpaper
01-31-2006, 06:43 PM
http://www.govideonow.com/LL/Hard_Truth.wmv

this... made me cry.

Anyone who isn't affected by this has no soul.

I highly doubt anyone actually supports abortion. People are pro-choice, not pro-abortion. It's the idea that although they may find abortion wrong, they still hold onto the idea that this is a free country and people can choose what to do for their own situation. Not going to watch the movie, don't feel like watching some right wing attempt at swaying me politically through grotesque images. And it's going to take 10 minutes to download.

Marylin_Mansam
02-03-2006, 07:02 PM
I highly doubt anyone actually supports abortion. People are pro-choice, not pro-abortion. It's the idea that although they may find abortion wrong, they still hold onto the idea that this is a free country and people can choose what to do for their own situation. Not going to watch the movie, don't feel like watching some right wing attempt at swaying me politically through grotesque images. And it's going to take 10 minutes to download.
I'm with this guy Pro choice doesn't actually mean Pro- Abortion.

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
02-03-2006, 07:14 PM
I'm with this guy Pro choice doesn't actually mean Pro- Abortion.



Pro-choicers fight and protest to keep abortion legal, if that isnt Pro-abortion then I don't know what is.

timorousme
02-03-2006, 07:20 PM
Pro-choicers fight and protest to keep abortion legal, if that isnt Pro-abortion then I don't know what is.

Just because we think that it should be legal doesn't necessarily mean that we're pro-abortion. If you're pro-life, you feel that nobody should be able to get an abortion. If you're pro-choice, you feel that women have the right to chose. Pro-abortion would mean that you feel that everybody should have an abortion, logically.

Speed Demon
02-03-2006, 09:59 PM
I have my own personal reasons for not supporting it because i feel if you make a mistake you need to pay the consequences. Thats how we learn and grow. Abortion should always be a last resort but too many people abuse it and use it as a escape from their "mistake".

timorousme
02-04-2006, 07:40 AM
I have my own personal reasons for not supporting it because i feel if you make a mistake you need to pay the consequences. Thats how we learn and grow. Abortion should always be a last resort but too many people abuse it and use it as a escape from their "mistake".

Oh, that will make a child feel wonderful. "You were just born as a punishment."

Speed Demon
02-04-2006, 07:01 PM
Get off that evidence, thats the only thing you have as a proof. Not all kids have terrible lives because the they were a mistake. I have a lot of friends where they told me their parents told them they were a mistake. Hell my friend told me his dad said "You were meant to hit the sheets." Doesn't mean he has a shitty life. He has a great life. Even if they were told they were unwanted. When they are 18 they are out of the house and on their own and can start a whole new life.

Not all parents ignore and treat the child as if they were unwanted if they weren't meant to get pregnant. Just as many parents just deal with it and raise the child good, to those who treat it bad and unwanted. Everything has flaws.

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 07:51 PM
I was DEFINITELY a mistake.

timorousme
02-04-2006, 07:53 PM
Get off that evidence, thats the only thing you have as a proof. Not all kids have terrible lives because the they were a mistake. I have a lot of friends where they told me their parents told them they were a mistake. Hell my friend told me his dad said "You were meant to hit the sheets." Doesn't mean he has a shitty life. He has a great life. Even if they were told they were unwanted. When they are 18 they are out of the house and on their own and can start a whole new life.

Not all parents ignore and treat the child as if they were unwanted if they weren't meant to get pregnant. Just as many parents just deal with it and raise the child good, to those who treat it bad and unwanted. Everything has flaws.

Not all people that accidentally get pregnant want an abortion. It's one thing to be told that you're a mistake, it's another thing to be told that your parents really wanted to have an abortion. And what do you mean that's the only thing that I have as evidence?

liebherk
02-04-2006, 08:53 PM
Just because we think that it should be legal doesn't necessarily mean that we're pro-abortion. If you're pro-life, you feel that nobody should be able to get an abortion. If you're pro-choice, you feel that women have the right to chose. Pro-abortion would mean that you feel that everybody should have an abortion, logically.

if you're pro-life, you feel that the baby's right to life outweighs the mother's "right" to abortion.

Abortion isn't a right, it's a wrong. <-- sign I saw at the march for life

dalton701
02-04-2006, 09:17 PM
SHIT i really wish i didnt see that

I never really had anyhting agaisnt abortion up until now
I mean that makes no sense killing an unborn chid who never even got to see daylgiht? They did not choose to be born it was some assholes chocie to stick his dick in evvery woman he meets. That was uberly disgusting

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 10:29 PM
SHIT i really wish i didnt see that

I never really had anyhting agaisnt abortion up until now
I mean that makes no sense killing an unborn chid who never even got to see daylgiht? They did not choose to be born it was some assholes chocie to stick his dick in evvery woman he meets. That was uberly disgusting

So were you born in 2006 or have you just lived under a rock with berries in your eyes and twigs up your ass maintaining a state of zen-like ignorance?

dalton701
02-04-2006, 10:33 PM
Shutup Fat Poser... you think your fuckin super man cause your a mod?

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 10:40 PM
No, I think I'm fucking superman because I'm faster than a speeding bullet.

dalton701
02-04-2006, 10:43 PM
oh damn i really dont want to mess wiht you

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 10:51 PM
I can also turn the world around backwards, thus reversing time.

liebherk
02-04-2006, 10:55 PM
little do you all know that he's also chuck norris.

better than superman.

dalton701
02-04-2006, 10:59 PM
oh shit sorry chuck please dont unleash a fury of roundhouse kicks on me

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 11:02 PM
Well I was just plain Chuck Norris until I got Superman in that little phone booth of his, beat the shit out of him, stole his powers, uniform, and outer layer of skin.

dalton701
02-04-2006, 11:11 PM
damn we lose another to Chuck

SmaShitUp87
02-04-2006, 11:36 PM
OH SHIT so diz wherda pwarty at.

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 11:38 PM
Hey SSU, check out my new profile picture.

http://www.skateboard-city.com/messageboard/image.php?u=36&dateline=1139128474&type=profile

SmaShitUp87
02-04-2006, 11:40 PM
Hey SSU, check out my new profile picture.

http://www.skateboard-city.com/messageboard/image.php?u=36&dateline=1139128474&type=profile

Ahaha. Well reply to my mothafuckin post so I got somthing to go off of.

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 11:43 PM
Big guy, pants, nondescript looking, slightly upward angle.

Go young grasshopper!

SmaShitUp87
02-04-2006, 11:49 PM
Ill start on it tonight, but its late, so Ill get most of it done tomorrow.

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 11:49 PM
camera slightly higher than head, pointing down

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 11:53 PM
I think I actually just thought of a way.

I think I thought of a good way to test it too.

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 11:55 PM
luckily its 4 AM

holy shit almost 420!

SmaShitUp87
02-04-2006, 11:57 PM
Haha I never though about smoking at 4:20 in the morning.

fat_poser
02-04-2006, 11:59 PM
im usually up for both 420's

usually at work by the PM one though

Charlie_Major
02-05-2006, 12:15 AM
I probably could not have said that better myself.

Yeah, this video really made me feel terrible. Life's such a precious gift....why would somebody want to take that away? How can people be so low and selfish?

I agree with this completely.
Although i hate the video, yes it did get its point across, but in what way? It just used images to try and "shock" it in to everyone. There was 3 facts in that. Thats not the truth its just what happens. Im against abortion if your gonna have sex without a condom its your fault. YOU should have the baby. You cant take it away, only in extreme circumstances where the baby is physically retarted and will not be able to do anything in his life and will be in constant pain should he be aborted.

HabitatSkater
02-05-2006, 05:56 AM
if you're pro-life, you feel that the baby's right to life outweighs the mother's "right" to abortion.

Abortion isn't a right, it's a wrong. <-- sign I saw at the march for life

Pro-life also calls for the right of the baby to live over the mother's own health. Most pro-lifers feel that way.

liebherk
02-05-2006, 08:55 AM
Pro-life also calls for the right of the baby to live over the mother's own health. Most pro-lifers feel that way.

to me, at least, it only matters if the mother's life is in danger. I haven't made up my mind about that scenario yet.

thefletch13
02-05-2006, 11:38 AM
sums up my views nicely.

anybody who says people arn't allowed abortions are fucking retarded.

and that video is stupid.

I hear ya.

If a woman needs an abortion because she got knocked up and can't pay Child Support, let her get an abortion.

I do know that a human life is a precious gift; but still, sometimes abortions are nessecary.(sp?)

BandagedSkater
02-09-2006, 09:09 PM
why can't a woman choose

Sk8erSquirrel
02-18-2006, 05:20 PM
My mom had me she was 16. I was adopted 4 weeks after birth. If she aborted me, you would not have ever known Sk8erSquirrel.

Let Fire Fall
02-18-2006, 06:09 PM
If someone wants an abortion, let them get it. It is the mother's choice. I'm neither for or aganist it.

givehugsnotdrugs
02-18-2006, 06:32 PM
"Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool."


Why don't you take those lyrics and apply them to a baby that actually was born. Would you rather never live at all, and never have to suffer or anything, or be born, and then ignored because you're just not wanted? I'd rather die then have to sit and watch all of the things I'm missing out on.


Damn, people opposing the abortion of a fetus that feels no pain or emotion? What's next, opposing birth control pills and condoms? After all, birth control pills kill the eggs that will eventually be a full human, and semen will eventually be a human too.

Look, if you're going to try and "give all life a chance" don't pick and choose what life you can save. Too me, an undeveloped fetus is the same as my semen. Doesn't feel pain, doesn't feel, doesn't think, and it isn't alive.

asphaltkisser
02-18-2006, 06:57 PM
that shits like the drug free vids wer they say doing marijuana and cocain can kill u wen 1s perfectly safe and the other isnt

lutzkasong
02-18-2006, 06:59 PM
Has anyone seen the whinnie the pooh anti-drug video. It was great, got me into weed.

BandagedSkater
02-18-2006, 07:50 PM
Why don't you take those lyrics and apply them to a baby that actually was born. Would you rather never live at all, and never have to suffer or anything, or be born, and then ignored because you're just not wanted? I'd rather die then have to sit and watch all of the things I'm missing out on.


Damn, people opposing the abortion of a fetus that feels no pain or emotion? What's next, opposing birth control pills and condoms? After all, birth control pills kill the eggs that will eventually be a full human, and semen will eventually be a human too.

Look, if you're going to try and "give all life a chance" don't pick and choose what life you can save. Too me, an undeveloped fetus is the same as my semen. Doesn't feel pain, doesn't feel, doesn't think, and it isn't alive.
i agree

Marevix
02-18-2006, 08:01 PM
I watched the video, and to be completely honest, I chuckled at one of the fetuses who reminded me of Yoda.

If a woman wants an abortion and has reasonable grounds, so be it. I'd rather kill a fetus before it experiences birth than have it suffer through a life of surviving on the streets as an orphan.

If the woman simply didn't bother with condoms, it still depends on circumstances. Odds are, if she can't think enough to get proper protection, she'd fuck up raising a child even worse.

HabitatSkater
02-18-2006, 08:03 PM
Would it be wrong to get an abortion if I had an epiphany that it would turn out to be the next Stalin? Eh?

encyclopedia
02-23-2006, 12:19 PM
If someone wants an abortion then they have the right to have one. No one has the right to deny or grant life. Who are you to say that you HAVE to have a child if you fall pregnant? If it's expected then there, of course, will be no reason for an abortion. However people wanting abortions either are not ready for them or are just plain accidents.

Forcing someone to give birth to an unwanted child is THE WORST thing you could do. Letting yourself give birth to an unwanted child is THE MOST SELFISH thing you could do.

LC_0428
02-26-2006, 08:04 AM
I am all against abortion. Abortion is murder. But the child will go to heaven, because there is something about an age where you understand how Jesus died for your sins. Since that baby hasn't reached the age yet, it will be in the hands of God.

fat_poser
02-26-2006, 08:56 AM
Wrong. Unborn babies go to Limbo. I learned this in a book I read in prison.

Boba Fett
02-26-2006, 09:54 AM
after all these comments, i dont wanna watch the video. abortion sux

dain84
02-26-2006, 12:21 PM
Letting yourself give birth to an unwanted child is THE MOST SELFISH thing you could do.
That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read.

lutzkasong
02-26-2006, 01:17 PM
Wrong. Unborn babies go to Limbo. I learned this in a book I read in prison.
Like one night?

encyclopedia
02-26-2006, 01:32 PM
That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read.

c+p

020706. fucked in the head.

today, I've decided to teach you a valuable lesson.

I don't believe in right and wrong in a conventional sense. I believe in favorable and unfavorable; I believe in fair and unfair. In essence...if you're fine with the consequences of an action, and it isn't forcibly ruining somebody else's day -- for example: gay marriage, using excessive profanity, wacking off to child porn, shit like that -- that's great. I may not stand behind it personally, but I think it's perfectly okay. People tend to think I'm fucked in the head for this.

with that said, here's something worth considering. I think the act of having a child is comparable to killing someone. I'm well aware we need to reproduce to propagate our existence, and depending on your sense of priority, that may take precedence over a simple ideal, but I'm talking in ideals alone.

first of all, know this: we're not doing a kid any favors by conceiving the motherfucker or giving birth to it, because this child -- either as a mildly-developed fetus or as a mere possibility, a sperm in our fucking balls, whatever you wanna call it -- is wholly incapable of any awareness whatsoever. As such, the kid in question isn't missing out on a damn thing; there's no possible way to rationalize giving birth to it for its own sake, and having a child is 100% selfishness. Think about that for a second; let it sink in. There is no other plausible outcome.

this brings me to my second point. Having a kid for your own reasons, plain and simple, is fucked up. It's on par with killing somebody in the sense that you're affecting someone else's life so drastically -- either by initiating it or terminating it prematurely -- without their consent, and without just cause. It's inexcusable. It's implying you know better with such certainty you're able to justify dictating the lifespan of another human being, when in actuality you have no fucking idea in the world. Like instilling your precious democracy in a foreign country and domesticating a wild animal for the sake of stage performances in the same breath, baby. It's the ultimate arrogance. I can understand it being tolerated for the sake of our species, but anyone who holds it in high regard or considers it a defining attribute of their worthless little life is a fucking fool.

bakerskater207
02-26-2006, 01:56 PM
i just threw up after watching that.

Buy-A-Baker
02-26-2006, 02:40 PM
Its hard to agree being against it and for it

Reason 1 some babys r made from rape most time fauther/daughter and they dont want it to live life knowing they were an accident and a freak

Reason 2 guys and girls mess around alot and dont want to raise a child at 13-16

Emerican skater
02-26-2006, 04:51 PM
why don't people just ahve the baby and put it up fo adoption. Then the baby will have a loving family and won't die before it evn opens its eyes

BandagedSkater
02-26-2006, 06:01 PM
c+p

020706. fucked in the head.

today, I've decided to teach you a valuable lesson.

I don't believe in right and wrong in a conventional sense. I believe in favorable and unfavorable; I believe in fair and unfair. In essence...if you're fine with the consequences of an action, and it isn't forcibly ruining somebody else's day -- for example: gay marriage, using excessive profanity, wacking off to child porn, shit like that -- that's great. I may not stand behind it personally, but I think it's perfectly okay. People tend to think I'm fucked in the head for this.

with that said, here's something worth considering. I think the act of having a child is comparable to killing someone. I'm well aware we need to reproduce to propagate our existence, and depending on your sense of priority, that may take precedence over a simple ideal, but I'm talking in ideals alone.

first of all, know this: we're not doing a kid any favors by conceiving the motherfucker or giving birth to it, because this child -- either as a mildly-developed fetus or as a mere possibility, a sperm in our fucking balls, whatever you wanna call it -- is wholly incapable of any awareness whatsoever. As such, the kid in question isn't missing out on a damn thing; there's no possible way to rationalize giving birth to it for its own sake, and having a child is 100% selfishness. Think about that for a second; let it sink in. There is no other plausible outcome.

this brings me to my second point. Having a kid for your own reasons, plain and simple, is fucked up. It's on par with killing somebody in the sense that you're affecting someone else's life so drastically -- either by initiating it or terminating it prematurely -- without their consent, and without just cause. It's inexcusable. It's implying you know better with such certainty you're able to justify dictating the lifespan of another human being, when in actuality you have no fucking idea in the world. Like instilling your precious democracy in a foreign country and domesticating a wild animal for the sake of stage performances in the same breath, baby. It's the ultimate arrogance. I can understand it being tolerated for the sake of our species, but anyone who holds it in high regard or considers it a defining attribute of their worthless little life is a fucking fool.


thats deep man

liebherk
02-27-2006, 09:14 AM
c+p

020706. fucked in the head.

today, I've decided to teach you a valuable lesson.

I don't believe in right and wrong in a conventional sense. I believe in favorable and unfavorable; I believe in fair and unfair. In essence...if you're fine with the consequences of an action, and it isn't forcibly ruining somebody else's day -- for example: gay marriage, using excessive profanity, wacking off to child porn, shit like that -- that's great. I may not stand behind it personally, but I think it's perfectly okay. People tend to think I'm fucked in the head for this.

with that said, here's something worth considering. I think the act of having a child is comparable to killing someone. I'm well aware we need to reproduce to propagate our existence, and depending on your sense of priority, that may take precedence over a simple ideal, but I'm talking in ideals alone.

first of all, know this: we're not doing a kid any favors by conceiving the motherfucker or giving birth to it, because this child -- either as a mildly-developed fetus or as a mere possibility, a sperm in our fucking balls, whatever you wanna call it -- is wholly incapable of any awareness whatsoever. As such, the kid in question isn't missing out on a damn thing; there's no possible way to rationalize giving birth to it for its own sake, and having a child is 100% selfishness. Think about that for a second; let it sink in. There is no other plausible outcome.

this brings me to my second point. Having a kid for your own reasons, plain and simple, is fucked up. It's on par with killing somebody in the sense that you're affecting someone else's life so drastically -- either by initiating it or terminating it prematurely -- without their consent, and without just cause. It's inexcusable. It's implying you know better with such certainty you're able to justify dictating the lifespan of another human being, when in actuality you have no fucking idea in the world. Like instilling your precious democracy in a foreign country and domesticating a wild animal for the sake of stage performances in the same breath, baby. It's the ultimate arrogance. I can understand it being tolerated for the sake of our species, but anyone who holds it in high regard or considers it a defining attribute of their worthless little life is a fucking fool.



... that was the stupidest shit I've seen all day.

And I've been spending all day on google videos.

yekcim
02-27-2006, 11:00 AM
oh my god, that was one of the saddest things ive ever seen.

im not for abortion, nor against it though. the festus is not concious, and feels nothing. but on the other hand, it is murder.


also.. since most abortions happen with teens, there is a probobility that most of them would be unhealthy, and grow up to be criminals, because their mom was only 14 years older them, and she didnt care about them. and it would not have had a father.

BandagedSkater
02-27-2006, 03:00 PM
... that was the stupidest shit I've seen all day.

And I've been spending all day on google videos.

would you care to explain why you hated it

fat_poser
02-28-2006, 10:10 AM
... that was the stupidest shit I've seen all day.

And I've been spending all day on google videos.


I agree.

What a moron.

Daltonmc
02-28-2006, 10:17 AM
... that was the stupidest shit I've seen all day.

And I've been spending all day on google videos.




HAHA that was funny....But man this thread has been around a long time. Long since like when I had my other account.But I couldnt care less about abortion cause They dont even have a chance to start life, feel pain, even know they are a living organism.

igrindtwinkies
03-17-2006, 07:25 PM
I'm against abortion but I think people should still should be able to do it. Like incest, or rape.

fat_poser
03-17-2006, 10:27 PM
South Dakota just made abortion illegal.

Always_4wards
03-17-2006, 10:49 PM
that made me pissed off

kcalblabel
03-27-2006, 08:42 PM
Abortion is just plain sick and murder, its the girls problem and she should have shouldnt of had vaginal sex, nobody should ever say its not their fault they got pregnant, cause its 100% their fault

NoStyle SR
03-28-2006, 10:41 AM
That had to be the most vile, disgusting thing I have ever watched in my entire life. Abortions are wrong and are murder. If you didn't want the kid, why the fuck weren't you on birth control, and the guy wearing a condom. Condoms are 97.3 % effective and birth control is 98.4 % effective. Like really, that just made me want to puke.

Mr Evil Guy
03-28-2006, 10:47 AM
That had to be the most vile, disgusting thing I have ever watched in my entire life. Abortions are wrong and are murder. If you didn't want the kid, why the fuck weren't you on birth control, and the guy wearing a condom. Condoms are 97.3 % effective and birth control is 98.4 % effective. Like really, that just made me want to puke.
But that's not 100% is it? Means there's still a chance that anything could happen.

My mom was on the pill, but she threw up because she had food poisoning. The pill came out, and I was born 9 months later. Sometimes, cirsumstances beyond your control happen. You get the bad roll of the dice sometimes, whether it be having food poisoning, or the pill fails.

Vivica
03-28-2006, 11:01 AM
I've only just watched that film, you know what that tells me, America is dumber than it looks.

Abortion in the UK is only legal if done within the first 24 weeks (which i think is being changed to 14 soon, not quite sure), having it as legal for all 9 months is fucking disgusting, nobody can argue against that, but while a many cannot survive on its own outside the whom, its just about acceptable.

A 9 month baby can be born, and won't die, a 24 week baby, if born, its dead, simple as.

Abortion is wrong in alot of cercomstances, HOWEVER, i think America's legal system is at fault here, not the mothers, or those who carry out the abortions.



Also, the police brutality towards abortion protesters is not helping their case, its making them look pathetic.

Vivica
03-28-2006, 11:06 AM
Right, i've now finished the entire movie... and i have one thing to say.

They think life's that fucking precious? Go to Africa and save them, they're already born and fighting.

Twats, twats the lot of them.

HabitatSkater
03-28-2006, 12:15 PM
But that's not 100% is it? Means there's still a chance that anything could happen.

My mom was on the pill, but she threw up because she had food poisoning. The pill came out, and I was born 9 months later. Sometimes, cirsumstances beyond your control happen. You get the bad roll of the dice sometimes, whether it be having food poisoning, or the pill fails.
My mom was one the pill, and out popped my sister.

reptiskate51
03-29-2006, 01:21 PM
Did he say the baby was physically suffering? No, the fetus suffers because he never gets to have a life. Have you ever heard the song "Keeping of Rocking in the Free World" by Neil Young? Lemme take a quote from it:

"Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool."

Basically sums up my views on abortion. The only way i support abortion is for rape victims, but then again they could fight and scream to get away but then again there are technicalities with Chloroform (sp?) and such. But they also have pills called Day After Pills. But for retards who have sex with out protection, i have no sympathy.
That's a great song and that's also my favorite part of it. Anyway, a fact on abortion is that:"Hitler's mother wanted to have an abortion, but her doctor talked her out of it." I see abortion as a matter of choice. If a girl unknowingly became pregnant from rape, a broken condom or some other fault, then it is her choice. For anyother case, if you're going to have unprotected sex, then at least take the responsibility to have your boyfriend/husband/some guy you met last night and gave you $50, a visectomy or get your tubes tied. Anyone else deserves the consequences.

downtown212
03-29-2006, 04:36 PM
Right, i've now finished the entire movie... and i have one thing to say.

They think life's that fucking precious? Go to Africa and save them, they're already born and fighting.

Twats, twats the lot of them.

Good point Vivica, who is helping the kids starving to death in Africa.

Some are living in hell right now, like walking 5 miles to get dirty water because the nearest well is 5 miles away.

To get food they have to look in dumps for food. Eating rotting food just to survive; also there are no doctors if they get sick so then there screwed.

DeafBSkate
04-03-2006, 09:52 PM
since i am getting a degree in biology soon i will explain a little bit on abortion from a scientific unbiased side. i can easily tell you why abortion is murder without religious or political views. and its hard to say against it. Im not saying im an expert or anything but i have had a little expierence studying genetics and embryology. this is my personal view on it and do not expect people to agree with it. but knowing a little bit about biology and other scientific medical and research fields i thought i would post my views. I AM NOT AN EXPERT OR DOCTOR THIS IS JUST MY EXPIERENCE AND VIEWS. sorry if i offend anyone.

ok. first a little background and some termonology.
Haploid - a celll that has only half of the required chromesomes for mioses
Diploid - a cell that has all required chromosomes for replication and mitosis
Mioses - sexual reproduction of two haploid cells forming a daughter cells
Mitosis - replication of dna and division (cytokinesis) of a cell into two identical daughter cells.
embryogenesis - study of embryo developement in mammals (mainly humans)
zygote - the joining of two haploid cells into one cell (start of human) one cell
glastula - a large ball of cells
blastula - an even larger ball of cells - multiplies 1 to 2, 2 to 4, 4 to 8, 8 to 16 etc.

ok lets first look at the scientific definition of Life - life is described as the ability of an organism to reproduce, grow and develop and react to stimuli
lets look at an example of a non living thing - a rock, does not reproduce, doesnt grow and is only reacting to stimuli due to physic
lets look at an example of a living organism - a plant, reproduces, grows and devolopes and definitly reacts to stimuli (put it in the dark it wont grow)
lets look at in between - a virus, is not considered a living thing even though it can reproduce, devolpe, and grow and spread, but it cant do it without another living thing (a host cell)

now that we got that down lets apply it to us.

We know that the definition of life is the ability to reproduce, grow and develope and react to stimuli. At about 12 years old every person goes through puberity in which we start to be able to produce haploid cells, e.g. spermatazoa and egg cells. now we can consider these already as being alive, they are our children and are alive already, the can reproduce due to mioses they both devolope and they both will react to stimuli (hormones mostly, thats another subject) so right there we have already shown that we are alive even before conception. Now when a sperm cell and an egg cell come together (each carries exactly 21 chromosomes, unlease you have a down syndrome cell which carries an additional 21 chromosome which is called Trisomine 23) we have a full set of 46 chromosomes, assuming all goes as planned. Now if we were not considered living before, then we have to be considered living now, we have to, there is no other way to describe it. At this time when the sperm cell and egg cell come together we have the start of embrogenesis, and the cell is now known as a zygote. This zygote is living. 1. it has already formed all of its organelles such as a nucleous (where dna is), ribosomes (assembliers of proteins), mitochondria (place of cellular respiration, ATP (adenosine Triophosphat), smooth and rough er (places of protein and lipid synthesis), etc. All these things come to play in mitosis because we require ATP (chemical energy) in order to replicate and seperate cells (cytokenisis). So even from a single cell we are constintly devolping and changing and reacting to outside stimulous and reproducing. Soon after we are a huge globe of cells known as a blasutula and are certain cells are ending there life as Stem cells (cells that do not know what job they play) and are becomeing into cardiac, muscle or brain cells. some even start becoming bone. THIS IS LIFE. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN IT AS LIFE.

If a single celled organism can be classified as a living thing then a multicelled organism even in its devolpement is definitly living. We all started as a single cell. we have been alive since day one, scientifically.

Now our definition of murder is intentially or unintentiallly ending the life of another. So isn't abortion, the killling of a growing, devolping, reproducing, changing reacting HUMAN BEING, no matter what stage of embryogenesis a human is in its still a human. A living, cellular respiring, energy using, breathing, consuming, organism, no matter its size, a single celled organism, multi celled whatever... still alive. Abortion is unconstitutional. Its based on hard facts and evidence and TRUTH that we are alive and still a human, whether or not you believe that we have a soul or not, that human is alive and well. To end its life so short... IS MURDER.

If you dont believe take a class look in a microscope, cuz i have... and we are alive no matter what our size. Its murder and theres nothing you can say. A human being is still a human being, no matter its size. Its just like saying that you can kill a person of different skin color then you because even though they are the same they are a different color they arnt human. A human is a human no matter its size shape or color. its life.

ABORTION IS MURDER. UNLESS HUMANS ARE THE ONE EXCEPTION TO ALL SCIENTIFIC STANDARDS IN BIOLOGY AND EBBRYOLOGY. THAT WE ARE NOT ALIVE UNTIL THE MOMENT AFTER WE LEAVE THE WOMB. ITS ALSO CALLED BIOETHICS. THEN THE CONSTITUION IS JUST AN EXCUSE.

by the way. the human genome has shown us that race is NONE EXISTENT there is no black race or white race. because 99.9999999% of our 3.54 billion genes our exactly the same thats its insignificant.

DeafBSkate
04-03-2006, 09:54 PM
and about the kids in africa... if what your saying is true... then i mean, lets just kill them all right now, cuz i mean that will make everything alot better

wolfgang
04-03-2006, 10:29 PM
Abortion is just plain sick and murder, its the girls problem and she should have shouldnt of had vaginal sex, nobody should ever say its not their fault they got pregnant, cause its 100% their fault

So by your logic, if a 14 year old girl was raped and got pregnant it is completely her fault and she must have the baby even though it will ruin her life forever.

Also i think its stuipid that most, possibly all the people who posted on this thread saying that abortion is murder are guys and as such cannot look at it from a girls perspective which is completely different.

Also a quick fact, when it is first concieved a child is no more than a small bundle of cells. It has no consiousness and cannot feel pain.
IN the human body about 300 000 000 cells die every day (i could be wrong but its a hell of a lot), these cells too are living. Every time you scratch your arm you are killing thousands of skin cells, should we consider this murder?

DeafBSkate
04-03-2006, 10:34 PM
no im not saying that. from a relious view i believe that in that case it is understandable for abortion because she got raped, but not suggested. there are many many programs that will take adoption.

because you are not concious does not mean you are not alive. say you fell off your skateboard and got knocked out. ok, well your not alive because your not speaking or concious. are you laying there thinking about stuff.. no your blacked out, so by your reasoning your not alive.

if you want to talk about that. then you can also talk about the terry shivo case. she was not concious and could not respond or think. wait... was she still alive? of course she was. was it right to take her off life support, i dont know.

BIOETHICS!!!!!

why should one person be so selfish when there are hundreds of women who cannot have children who pray everynight to get a call saying that there is a baby just for her.

also... when you scratch your skin you are already flaking away already dead skin cells. and also all those cells that died died of natural causes. it was time for them to go. thats just life. but when you are only a small bundle of cells, a blastula, you need every cell you can get..... a

wolfgang
04-03-2006, 10:45 PM
You make a reasonable argument instead of just spewing crappy right wing propaganda without thinking about what your saying.

Really its just a matter of opinion-I just got irritated by some of the small-minded idiots who could not even look at the matter from a different perspective.

HOwever i will still try to argue my case, I didn't say that you weren't alive if you had know concious, but think about it- if you got knocked out and then later died...would you be sad. NO because you would never know that you were dead (unless you belive in life after death). Really, death is only sad for the survivors, because if you are dead then it is impossible to feel or know anything.

As to your point about being selfish-ever heard of adoption, there are millions of starving children in Africa and INdia who would love to be adopted.

DeafBSkate
04-03-2006, 10:53 PM
You make a reasonable argument instead of just spewing crappy right wing propaganda without thinking about what your saying.^^

Really its just a matter of opinion-I just got irritated by some of the small-minded idiots who could not even look at the matter from a different perspective.

thank you. i kinda view myself as some what as a scientist (i like to skate and im prolly the biggest nerd i know!!! lol) and believe me i have debated many things and as a christian and a scientist. they dont like to always get along. i know, i understand your frustration because alot of people are uneducated in many of the subjects. im an avid support of ethical stem cell research. i like proof and i live unbiased proof and when i sit to write a lab report or anything. i hvae to be unbiased which is hard. but im trying to help some people understand a little bit more of what goes on biologically and how that can be viewed and related. im not here to change minds just to help educate.

ok. but the difference is. this is murder. you would have died because of your own causes. your right it would be sad. but its still not murder. im talking about murder.

The point is someone else didnt end your life, you did it, by skateboarding and dieing of natural cause. Abortion is murder, because its ending the life of another human being. like i said, unless human beings are the one exception to all standards in science that have to do with living and non living organisms then we still apply. by the definition of life, we are alive even as a single cell. therefore to be alive as a human being even as a single cell we are still a human and laws should apply. any unnatural cause of death such as a person commiting or having the abortion is murder. killing that cell, zygote, blastula, glastula, big nasty ball of cells, human whatever you want to call it, intentionally or unintetionally is commiting murder, because you are ending another persons life. murder.

DeafBSkate
04-03-2006, 11:08 PM
by the way. i like you. and i think you are doing a good job on your side. i appreciate that, its not every day i get to talk about this with someone of reasonable intelligence.

Vivica
04-03-2006, 11:32 PM
no im not saying that. from a relious view i believe that in that case it is understandable for abortion because she got raped, but not suggested. there are many many programs that will take adoption.


So you'd make the girl carry the rapists baby for the entire pregnancy, and then endure giving birth, just to save a fetus who does not yet have the ability to survive on its own without its mother?

That's pretty damn stupid now isn't it?

I think America is fucked with abortion, no pun intended, i do think its DISGUSTING that abortion is legal for all 9 months of pregnancy, in the UK its only legal in the first 24 weeks, because after that, the baby has a chance of surviving without its mother.

Once a fetus can survive on its own i would suggest that its life becomes its own, and it shouldn't be allowed to be killed without its consent.

I would suggest that America should adopt a similar policy, only allowing abortions while they're in the early stages, while the fetus could not survive outside of the womb.

timorousme
04-04-2006, 02:50 AM
since i am getting a degree in biology soon i will explain a little bit on abortion from a scientific unbiased side. i can easily tell you why abortion is murder without religious or political views. and its hard to say against it. Im not saying im an expert or anything but i have had a little expierence studying genetics and embryology. this is my personal view on it and do not expect people to agree with it. but knowing a little bit about biology and other scientific medical and research fields i thought i would post my views. I AM NOT AN EXPERT OR DOCTOR THIS IS JUST MY EXPIERENCE AND VIEWS. sorry if i offend anyone.

ok. first a little background and some termonology.
Haploid - a celll that has only half of the required chromesomes for mioses
Diploid - a cell that has all required chromosomes for replication and mitosis
Mioses - sexual reproduction of two haploid cells forming a daughter cells
Mitosis - replication of dna and division (cytokinesis) of a cell into two identical daughter cells.
embryogenesis - study of embryo developement in mammals (mainly humans)
zygote - the joining of two haploid cells into one cell (start of human) one cell
glastula - a large ball of cells
blastula - an even larger ball of cells - multiplies 1 to 2, 2 to 4, 4 to 8, 8 to 16 etc.

ok lets first look at the scientific definition of Life - life is described as the ability of an organism to reproduce, grow and develop and react to stimuli
lets look at an example of a non living thing - a rock, does not reproduce, doesnt grow and is only reacting to stimuli due to physic
lets look at an example of a living organism - a plant, reproduces, grows and devolopes and definitly reacts to stimuli (put it in the dark it wont grow)
lets look at in between - a virus, is not considered a living thing even though it can reproduce, devolpe, and grow and spread, but it cant do it without another living thing (a host cell)

now that we got that down lets apply it to us.

We know that the definition of life is the ability to reproduce, grow and develope and react to stimuli. At about 12 years old every person goes through puberity in which we start to be able to produce haploid cells, e.g. spermatazoa and egg cells. now we can consider these already as being alive, they are our children and are alive already, the can reproduce due to mioses they both devolope and they both will react to stimuli (hormones mostly, thats another subject) so right there we have already shown that we are alive even before conception. Now when a sperm cell and an egg cell come together (each carries exactly 21 chromosomes, unlease you have a down syndrome cell which carries an additional 21 chromosome which is called Trisomine 23) we have a full set of 46 chromosomes, assuming all goes as planned. Now if we were not considered living before, then we have to be considered living now, we have to, there is no other way to describe it. At this time when the sperm cell and egg cell come together we have the start of embrogenesis, and the cell is now known as a zygote. This zygote is living. 1. it has already formed all of its organelles such as a nucleous (where dna is), ribosomes (assembliers of proteins), mitochondria (place of cellular respiration, ATP (adenosine Triophosphat), smooth and rough er (places of protein and lipid synthesis), etc. All these things come to play in mitosis because we require ATP (chemical energy) in order to replicate and seperate cells (cytokenisis). So even from a single cell we are constintly devolping and changing and reacting to outside stimulous and reproducing. Soon after we are a huge globe of cells known as a blasutula and are certain cells are ending there life as Stem cells (cells that do not know what job they play) and are becomeing into cardiac, muscle or brain cells. some even start becoming bone. THIS IS LIFE. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN IT AS LIFE.

If a single celled organism can be classified as a living thing then a multicelled organism even in its devolpement is definitly living. We all started as a single cell. we have been alive since day one, scientifically.

Now our definition of murder is intentially or unintentiallly ending the life of another. So isn't abortion, the killling of a growing, devolping, reproducing, changing reacting HUMAN BEING, no matter what stage of embryogenesis a human is in its still a human. A living, cellular respiring, energy using, breathing, consuming, organism, no matter its size, a single celled organism, multi celled whatever... still alive. Abortion is unconstitutional. Its based on hard facts and evidence and TRUTH that we are alive and still a human, whether or not you believe that we have a soul or not, that human is alive and well. To end its life so short... IS MURDER.

If you dont believe take a class look in a microscope, cuz i have... and we are alive no matter what our size. Its murder and theres nothing you can say. A human being is still a human being, no matter its size. Its just like saying that you can kill a person of different skin color then you because even though they are the same they are a different color they arnt human. A human is a human no matter its size shape or color. its life.

ABORTION IS MURDER. UNLESS HUMANS ARE THE ONE EXCEPTION TO ALL SCIENTIFIC STANDARDS IN BIOLOGY AND EBBRYOLOGY. THAT WE ARE NOT ALIVE UNTIL THE MOMENT AFTER WE LEAVE THE WOMB. ITS ALSO CALLED BIOETHICS. THEN THE CONSTITUION IS JUST AN EXCUSE.

by the way. the human genome has shown us that race is NONE EXISTENT there is no black race or white race. because 99.9999999% of our 3.54 billion genes our exactly the same thats its insignificant.

In that case, swatting a fly is murder. Eating a carrot is murder. Stepping on a dandylion is murder. Even washing our hands is murder.

Also, you said these exact words "abortion is unconstitutional." Tell me, even though the embryo is alive, at what point does it become a citizen with constitiutional rights? In order to have something be unconstitutional, there has to be some violation somewhere, and I can tell you, I still haven't found it.

On a term of right and wrong, there's a huge argument, but the simple fact is that it is not unconstitutional, and there should be nothing to stop it legally.

wolfgang
04-04-2006, 04:17 AM
by the way. i like you. and i think you are doing a good job on your side. i appreciate that, its not every day i get to talk about this with someone of reasonable intelligence.

Thanks, it is good to be able to have a reasonable argument withsome who can actually back up what their saying.

wolfgang
04-04-2006, 04:23 AM
So you'd make the girl carry the rapists baby for the entire pregnancy, and then endure giving birth, just to save a fetus who does not yet have the ability to survive on its own without its mother?

That's pretty damn stupid now isn't it?

I think America is fucked with abortion, no pun intended, i do think its DISGUSTING that abortion is legal for all 9 months of pregnancy, in the UK its only legal in the first 24 weeks, because after that, the baby has a chance of surviving without its mother.

Once a fetus can survive on its own i would suggest that its life becomes its own, and it shouldn't be allowed to be killed without its consent.

I would suggest that America should adopt a similar policy, only allowing abortions while they're in the early stages, while the fetus could not survive outside of the womb.

actually he stated that it was understandable for the girl to get an abortion in that case-he just didn't recomend it.

But yes, i agree with your other points.

tubbyturd
04-04-2006, 05:46 AM
I've always been pro-choice up until a certain point in the pregnancy. I think that once the child can feel pain & think, that should be the cut off. of course, at what point does that happen?

As a side note, I *think* the cutoff limit around here is around fifteen weeks.

DeafBSkate
04-04-2006, 06:00 AM
In that case, swatting a fly is murder. Eating a carrot is murder. Stepping on a dandylion is murder. Even washing our hands is murder.

Also, you said these exact words "abortion is unconstitutional." Tell me, even though the embryo is alive, at what point does it become a citizen with constitiutional rights? In order to have something be unconstitutional, there has to be some violation somewhere, and I can tell you, I still haven't found it.

On a term of right and wrong, there's a huge argument, but the simple fact is that it is not unconstitutional, and there should be nothing to stop it legally.

Im not sure when it has ever been murder to eat a carrot. i mean maybe you view any human life just as insignificant as a carrot is kinda sad. i do not think there is any law against ending a flies life, if there were then we would prolly be talking about it.

since you think abortion is unconstitutional. at what point does it say that anyone becomes a citizen of the united states? born or unborn? if you can say that a human being concieved by two people from america, no matter what its devolpment has no rights, then none of us do. because i do not believe it specifes exactly when we recieve our rights. is it right after birth? is it at age 10? 21?

if you can say that an embryo does not have rights because it is so young, and your reasoning is that it doesnt specify an exact age in which those rights are given. How then can you pursuade me with something i can use right against you. If it doesnt specify an age at what point did that embryo NOT have any rights?

so basically what your saying is that because that embryo is not devolped enough it has no rights and therefore does not deserve to live. Did terry shivo have any rights? could she decide whether she wanted to live or die, no but they pulled the plug on her. at what point was her rights taken away? the moment she became brain dead. she was still alive. if what your saying is true then you two are also putting limitations of what it is to be a citizen. though it may have been bettter for her to die. it wasnt her choice so at what point was her constitutional right to live, no matter what state, taken away from her?

Vivica
04-04-2006, 06:16 AM
Your life is yours once you can live on your own, when you could be born and survive.

As i've said, in the UK its only legal for the first 24 weeks, because after that there's going to be a chance that the child could be saved, but statisticly, before that, there's no hope it could survive out side of the womb.

So yea, your life is your own when you can sustain it yourself, in my opinion.

Obviously by sustain i don't mean go get a job and find your own food, before some twat suggests that.

DeafBSkate
04-04-2006, 10:24 AM
well your opinion is your own. and i definitely respect it and i think you make a good argument and wolfgang also. its not everyday i get to talk about it with someone who at least knows a little of what they are talking about.

Vivica
04-04-2006, 10:40 AM
And its rare we get new members like yourself who actually know what they're talking about, respect for that.

Being honest, i would rather save starving children in third world countries who've been fighting to stay alive their entire lives, rather than a fetus who's not yet been born.

That's just me though... I'm not really anti-abortion, i'm also not really pro-abortion, i think it has its place. I cannot understand how anybody can say its never acceptable... however, it needs to be used as a last resort, not as a means of contraception (which by very definition its not).

I also strongly beleive that America shouldn't allow it to be legal for all 9 months of pregnancy, that's just stupid. I think 24 weeks is too long as well to be honest, 16 weeks (4 months) would be more suitable, no child could be developed enough to have control over its own life at that stage, in my opinion. The facts may say otherwise, but i have never seen statistics on 16 week old baby's brain activity... so i wouldn't know.

DeafBSkate
04-04-2006, 11:08 AM
And its rare we get new members like yourself who actually know what they're talking about, respect for that.

Being honest, i would rather save starving children in third world countries who've been fighting to stay alive their entire lives, rather than a fetus who's not yet been born.

That's just me though... I'm not really anti-abortion, i'm also not really pro-abortion, i think it has its place. I cannot understand how anybody can say its never acceptable... however, it needs to be used as a last resort, not as a means of contraception (which by very definition its not).

I also strongly beleive that America shouldn't allow it to be legal for all 9 months of pregnancy, that's just stupid. I think 24 weeks is too long as well to be honest, 16 weeks (4 months) would be more suitable, no child could be developed enough to have control over its own life at that stage, in my opinion. The facts may say otherwise, but i have never seen statistics on 16 week old baby's brain activity... so i wouldn't know.


The thing is and its kinda wierd but abortion in the natural world is very common. for instance, most animals will kill their young if they have already had two many offspring in a litter. the fact is that abortion in the natural world is a way of survival. over population breads disease and starvatation and eventually death. but, when we humans have abortions its not because "we have to" its because this baby will be an "inconvience". the truth is (and this may just happen in a perfect world) that if your not ready for children do not have sex. i personally am still a virgin, but i have been with the same girl for over a year and some. and i am happy with that, i mean i love her so much and i want to have sex with her someday. but when im ready, and believe yes im like every other guy and i do think about it alot but you cant just think, oh this is good for me cuz it feels awsome and im sure it does, but is that short time (lol) of the amazing feeling enough to ruin someones life and to possibly kill a child that had nothig to do with it. i mean, i personally am waiting and im happy with that.

Vivica
04-04-2006, 11:17 AM
Which is why there are other forms of birth control :-!?

Unless you're one of those crazed Catholics who sees the use of birth control as wrong... in which case you're not as smart as you seem...

I know what you mean though, people are too obsessed with sex these days, I'm only 17, but i'm certainly not having sex with people just because its what you're meant to do. I've been with my girlfriend for... *counts* almost a year and 9 months, we havn't had sex, and are unlikely to for quite a while.
That's partly because of the distance apart we are, but its also because we really arn't all that bothered, sure we talk about it every few months, disguess our opinions etc, but its not like we're raring to do it ASAP.

I think its a problem with parenting these days, kids let peer preasure and social acceptance carry more weight than its worth, people do it due to the fact its the social norm, and not always when they're ready for it.

From the sounds of it... unless you're anti-birth control, you seem to be the best member to join since March.

DeafBSkate
04-04-2006, 01:15 PM
im a renegade catholic lol. Lutheren. but i do not believe that premaritle sex is right, even with a condom. i do believe that there is one form of contreception that is the only "right" way to do it. NFP, natural family planning is 99% safe. and it also allows sex without a condom or other forms of contraception. its just a way of a woman to moniter her fertility. by watching body temperature and mucos viscosity. if its done correctly its safer then a condom and it doesnt seem that hard, just have to be able to keep a calender.

But!!! if someone was going to have premarital sex and know that they will, even though i believe it is not right at all. the least thing you can do is wear a condom. but prefably not have sex at all.

thanks. i dont know if i am the best lol. hopefully you dont think that since i am against forms of contraception that i am some like freak and a horrible person. and by the way, just because catholics and alot of other people believe what they believe, whatever it is, doesnt make them good people and nice people. my girlfriend is catholic, and i also went to a catholic school, even though im lutheren and they arent like crazy freaky strict people. they just have their beliefs just like you have your beliefs. i dont think your a bad person cuz of what you believe. and i definitely wont judge you. and i just ask that you dont judge me or catholics.

Vivica
04-04-2006, 01:32 PM
Fair enough man, i do totally disagree about NFP, but hey, each to their own... i sure as hell wouldn't use it as a form of contraception though, that's for sure!

I can understand why you could get annoyed with my sweeping generalisation about Catholics... but i seriously do find their stance on contraception laughable! Especially in this day and age where sex is no longer seen as so sacred and taboo as it once was.

John Paul II, and now Benedict XVI, stuck with very hard line Catholic views on contraception, which is fair enough for Catholics in the developed world with access to health care, etc etc, but to enforce the same anti-contraception policy on Africa, where there's just under 26 million people living with HIV, is stupid.
And i will hold a grudge towards both Pope Benedict XVI, and any Catholics who support him in this. Its retarded.

DeafBSkate
04-04-2006, 02:01 PM
ok now we are into HIV (retrovirus). im going for a degree in epidemiolgy also ^_^. In a country that has that many cases it is now an epidemic. there are so many cases (not caused by sex, but other forms of fluid transmission such as blood oaths and funeral rituals) that it if you come in contact with the virus and have any sort of abrasion you most likely could come in contact with HIV virus. you are right i think. something has to be done and right now condoms may work a very small bit. but i doubt it, because the virus can be spread through nearly all bodily fluid transmission. the best thing would say no sex and that would slow the spread but you cant really do that.

and also. why are you blaming catholics for whats happened in africa. the majority of africa is not catholic so its not like they are going to do anything the church says. also its kinda rude you say that anyones beliefs are laughable.... did i call yours laughable. so id appreciate it if you didnt critize others no matter who they are or how obserd their ideas may be. believe me, when you get into college and work with people. you can not say stuff like what you said. it can get you in a butt load of trouble or fired

and why are you against NFP, if its another form of contraception (which you believe in) why arnt you for it. its helping you. and it works for me to. so i dont see the problem. and it does work.

DeafBSkate
04-04-2006, 02:03 PM
you also have to think about hiv incidence vs. hiv prevalence in africa both are high. but in certain parts its different

Vivica
04-04-2006, 02:12 PM
Saying it wouldn't make a much of a difference is wrong, it would, without a doubt. I did a huge report on HIV transmition etc a few months ago, and i'm sure it would make a big difference.

And alot of Africa is Catholic... which is one of the many reasons i beleive it would make quite an impact.

As for NFP... its all well and good as a form of contraception, but i really don't see it as safe, not only would i not put my fair in it as a contraceptive, its also dangerous with respects to STD's and STI's.

Yes, i do laugh at religions views... will i say sorry... No. Its just the way i am, i have my views, and until proved wrong, i'll stick to them.

DeafBSkate
04-04-2006, 02:39 PM
then you should now about nosocomial infections - and that many hospitals in africa will just as easily lay an hiv infected person down next to a person without hiv. if one person has it and is in a room with many people that dont. and are in close contact and sharing drinks and utencils and the hospital workers are not using proper aespetic cleaning techniques that you will have a high number of secondary infections. this is where epidemiologist specialize. and since its a known fact that the majority of hospitals are so in adequetly outfitted that people are afraid of hospitals - people would go in without it and come out with the virus.

yes, i think that condoms would *slow* the infection. but never stop it. nosocomial infections are by far * A * leading factor out of many in the spread of HIV virus.

and you will prolly have a hard time with that attitude of thats just the way i am and you start critizing there beliefs. believe me you ahve to be political correct about everything. especially that.

and any sex, even with contraception is dangerous because of stds. condoms are not designed to stop std's. for instance... HPV, is spread by contact just *near* the genital area. so is herpes B. its riddiculous to think that you are safe with a condom and to do so is dangerous.

freakn_style
04-04-2006, 03:26 PM
Use birthcontrol, instead of showing us biased movies containing half babies. That didn't make me want to stop abortion, im already anti abortion, but that was just disturbing. That is such a low percent of total abortions that it is not even convincing. The viewer is so disturbed by the images, that they have no time to think about anti abortion. Condems and "the pill" in combination is a very very very good birthcontrol method, and if you watch the females most fertile days and refrain from having sex on those days, the chance of conceiving life is very low.

fat_poser
04-04-2006, 04:51 PM
I always found the advocation of natural family planning kinda stupid. You can rely on math to avoid pregnancy, but not science?

How is sperm any less wasted if you're intentionally expending it at a time where it can't produce pregnancy?

wolfgang
04-05-2006, 03:31 AM
Use birthcontrol, instead of showing us biased movies containing half babies. That didn't make me want to stop abortion, im already anti abortion, but that was just disturbing. That is such a low percent of total abortions that it is not even convincing. The viewer is so disturbed by the images, that they have no time to think about anti abortion. Condems and "the pill" in combination is a very very very good birthcontrol method, and if you watch the females most fertile days and refrain from having sex on those days, the chance of conceiving life is very low.

hehehe, you came in kinda late dude the conversatin has gone way past that.

wolfgang
04-05-2006, 03:36 AM
Fair enough man, i do totally disagree about NFP, but hey, each to their own... i sure as hell wouldn't use it as a form of contraception though, that's for sure!

I can understand why you could get annoyed with my sweeping generalisation about Catholics... but i seriously do find their stance on contraception laughable! Especially in this day and age where sex is no longer seen as so sacred and taboo as it once was.

John Paul II, and now Benedict XVI, stuck with very hard line Catholic views on contraception, which is fair enough for Catholics in the developed world with access to health care, etc etc, but to enforce the same anti-contraception policy on Africa, where there's just under 26 million people living with HIV, is stupid.
And i will hold a grudge towards both Pope Benedict XVI, and any Catholics who support him in this. Its retarded.

I agree with you,

the general message and faith of the catholic church are good, but the church doesn't realise what it is doing by banning contraception in Africa and even in the first world. In some ways it is losing touch.

ps.that was just a generalisation from my experiences in Australia-i don't know one person here who goes to church

Vivica
04-05-2006, 03:41 AM
Thanks for your comment.

Although i don't follow Christianity, i do think that alot of what they say makes perfect sense, but seriously, you do have to make some soft of a shift at some point.

You can't presume that you can stay the same for centuries, and people will fit around the religion for ever, at some point, the religion will have to compromise, its either that, or loose touch with its followers, or worse still (maybe), loose followers all together.

StarcraftLedZeppelin
04-05-2006, 08:14 AM
fuck dude, this video is fucking gory as hell.
why are they showing people being arrested?
the late abortions are just as wrong as woman in the U.S. having children just for welfare.

Vivica
04-05-2006, 08:16 AM
They're showing people being arrested in an attempt to get people on their side, make it seem like they're the good guys, and people will support them.

The whole film's just propaganda. However it does provoke interesting arguements....

StarcraftLedZeppelin
04-05-2006, 08:18 AM
i didnt even want to finish watching it, i got tired of seeing dead decapitated fetuses.

ive seen some gross stuff, faces of death. but this takes the cake on most disturbing.

fat_poser
04-05-2006, 09:20 AM
I'm pretty sure the guy they showed getting arrested either tried to bomb an abortion clinic or was the guy who sniped an abortion doctor in his home.

Of course they didnt tell you that part...

someperson
04-05-2006, 12:38 PM
I'm against abortion myself, personally i don't think it's right to play god.That also goes for the death penalty,but if it's the case were the parents don't want the kid and it's going to live a horrible life and yes it's stupid to not have protection on but people are stupid, what more can i say.Sure there is always adoption but the kid will always look for their birth parents but abortion is wrong.

timorousme
04-05-2006, 03:41 PM
In the county right above mine, they've been taking an insane amount of children into foster care because of unsafe living conditions (you should see the houses that they showed on the news, it was horrible). After spending so much money sending all of these children through foster care, they now realize a cheaper option: they're going to start paying people to not have children. A yearly check will be given to all families with no children. I just thought that this could somehow flow into the abortion talk.

mogwai
04-10-2006, 12:16 PM
For me, that video wasn't affective to swaying my decision of abortion one way or another, it just made me sick.

HabitatSkater
04-10-2006, 07:54 PM
In the county right above mine, they've been taking an insane amount of children into foster care because of unsafe living conditions (you should see the houses that they showed on the news, it was horrible). After spending so much money sending all of these children through foster care, they now realize a cheaper option: they're going to start paying people to not have children. A yearly check will be given to all families with no children. I just thought that this could somehow flow into the abortion talk.
I say the government goes around and punches every woman in the ovaries, hard enough that it will prevent her from having children.

Mr Evil Guy
04-10-2006, 07:59 PM
I say the government goes around and punches every woman in the ovaries, hard enough that it will prevent her from having children.
Yes yes, we shall become a nation of women beaters!

And now I can follow through on the threat "I'm gonna punch you in the ovaries" without repurcussion!

HabitatSkater
04-10-2006, 08:11 PM
Yes yes, we shall become a nation of women beaters!

And now I can follow through on the threat "I'm gonna punch you in the ovaries" without repurcussion!
Not our government. It wouldn't work here. We are filled with a bunch of pro-life anti-choice people. Maybe China should start doing that... hmmm....

Mr Evil Guy
04-10-2006, 08:16 PM
Not our government. It wouldn't work here. We are filled with a bunch of pro-life anti-choice people. Maybe China should start doing that... hmmm....
Oh, you said "the government" so I assumed you meant America.

But what China is doing seems to be working now. Population growth percentage is decreasing (so I last read) so I don't think boxer punches to the ovary would be necessarry.

HabitatSkater
04-10-2006, 08:23 PM
Oh, you said "the government" so I assumed you meant America.

But what China is doing seems to be working now. Population growth percentage is decreasing (so I last read) so I don't think boxer punches to the ovary would be necessarry.
Yeah, but that would decrease the population of China even greater.

chip
04-16-2006, 03:43 PM
Supporting abortion is easy. Go ahead and think about it.

We are constantly fed the prevarication that abortion is an act by which overly promiscuous women brutally fry their harmless fetusís. Yes, this is sometimes the case. However, the actual percentage of the time that this happens is completely marginal.

Consider it, using abortion as a common contraceptive, in absence of the pill or a condom (which the common belief holds it to be), is completely ridiculous. Between the first 6-10 weeks the cost of an abortion is between $350 and $500 while the cost of a condom is roughly $0.50 (figure 6 bucks for a 12 pack). Abortion is between 700 and 1000 times more expensive than using a condom, and that's just within the early stages; the cost of abortion rises as pregnancy advances. So the stereotype of these slutty nazi women torching their unborn children because they're too lazy, too careless, to take action is built on a very unstable foundation. Abortion is a huge inconvenience. Many people believe the opposite, that abortion is an easy way out, a quick fix. It certainly is an ameliorative action, but absolutely not one of acedia. If these terrible women truly infested our culture we would see a drop in the number of abortions. Abortion is compassion.

Think of the reasons someone would decide to have an abortion, now oversimplify what you have concluded. What it really comes down to is this; "I donít want to/can't afford to/simply can't have this child." It would appear that those on the right are primarily concerned with the fetus while those on the left are primarily concerned with the rights and liberties of the mother. Now let me pause for a brief moment and remind you, we have already established that abortion is not a common mode of contraception, it is an emergency measure taken in desperation (later I will address this further and how it relates to the plight of the mother). I unequivocally believe that the rights of the mother supercede those of the fetus. We hear all of this passionate nonsense about "pro-life" - whose life? Who is more alive a woman or a small pile of organic matter? Unfortunately, many can't seem to admit this to themselves. A fetus is, in many ways, like a little puppy, cute, innocent, and completely defenseless. People would much rather identify with innocence than empathize with reality, shame.

Aborted babies are unwanted babies. Children who come into this world unwanted, as a burden, are much more likely to face figurative abortion. A child is unloved and resented won't have much of a life anyway. Often times this child will be a huge financial and social burden leading to great resentment. Image this, a woman is raped and becomes pregnant. If I were her I would certainly want an abortion. Can you imagine thinking of an experience as traumatic as being raped every time you see your child? Do you think there will be a healthy nurturing relationship there? Of course there will not. Not good enough? Okay imagine this, farmer Jon (himself the product of a 1st cousin marriage) rapes his daughter Peggy-Sue and impregnates her. The social and financial repercussions of the aforementioned scenario will still exist. However in addition, there's a high probability that this child will suffer from a plethora of disabilities e.g. mental, physical, developmental, etc. (on top of not being loved). In cases such as these, it is not uncommon for the mother to develop clinical depression and other psychological illnesses. Now, by not having an abortion, not only has an unloved, disadvantaged, and unintended child been created but also a woman's life has been ruined. If you insist on believing that a fetus is alive then you believe that abortion is ruining the life of a fetus. Who cares?! Yeah I said it; who cares? What is the greater loss, what is the greater travesty, the instantaneous loss of an undeveloped human or the slow, painful, relentless destruction of two real humans?

You ask how anyone can support abortion. Now you know.

newb_frend_of_rock_rocks_
04-16-2006, 06:43 PM
fuck i am so glad i wasnt part of this bigassed debate

The_Clash911
04-24-2006, 06:50 PM
Anyone who is for abortion is a mindless asshole who's only cares in life are what makes them feel good unstead of taking responsibility for thier mistakes.



Pro-choice my ass. Its not your pro-choice when the person who suffers isn't the person making the choice.
Couldn't agree with you more.

skateboarder113
05-10-2006, 07:58 PM
i dont care what anyone says but im very against abortion.... image if your mom wanted to abortion you when you were a baby... when you wouldnt been there, so actually think about that

also, people are so idiot.. i saw on news, one man who is in jail for around 3 months, because he threw a cat out of the window and killed it... he went to jail for that, so now, think about it.. people can kill the baby but people cant kill the cat... thats so freaking hypertie... I dont think anyone shouldnt kill ANYTHING... animals can feel too but people doesnt care about anything. Bugs can feel too.. God say do not murder anyone... as soon sperm and eggs gets together, so it is a LIVING. killing a living baby inside you is a murder, i very highly believe that!

fat_poser
05-10-2006, 10:22 PM
i dont care what anyone says but im very against abortion.... image if your mom wanted to abortion you when you were a baby... when you wouldnt been there, so actually think about that

also, people are so idiot.. i saw on news, one man who is in jail for around 3 months, because he threw a cat out of the window and killed it... he went to jail for that, so now, think about it.. people can kill the baby but people cant kill the cat... thats so freaking hypertie... I dont think anyone shouldnt kill ANYTHING... animals can feel too but people doesnt care about anything. Bugs can feel too.. God say do not murder anyone... as soon sperm and eggs gets together, so it is a LIVING. killing a living baby inside you is a murder, i very highly believe that!

You should've been aborted.

wolfgang
05-11-2006, 01:38 AM
Bugs can feel too..

actually bugs cannot feel

most bugs (not all) do not have a nervous system that allows them to feel pain. That is why ants can still walk calmly with half their legs missing.

cheese_wigger
06-01-2006, 04:02 PM
I probably could not have said that better myself.

Yeah, this video really made me feel terrible. Life's such a precious gift....why would somebody want to take that away? How can people be so low and selfish?

Life's a precious gift if you realize you're alive. People should worry more about kids suffering and dying of hunger in undeveloped countries than about fetuses who don't realize they exist. Mind over matter.

almost1337
06-01-2006, 04:26 PM
o man... thats all i can really think to say.... im sickened

ruckus.
06-05-2006, 04:38 PM
I've read every single word of every single above post and now I'm glad I did because it made me think a lot.
Still, there are so many 'but what if' and 'well then agains' that it really confuzzled me. I'm not going to state an opinion because I'm not absolutely sure what it is, and it wouldn't add anything to the discussion.
However, that video was absolutely disgusting. It's sad they couldn't find a way to get their point across, and while it stunned me for a second, it mostly just made me feel sick.

woop tang
06-05-2006, 05:18 PM
ughhh i sat through all of that so i could get my facts straight before i posted but all they showed was body parts.that was sick it didnt make me sad it just made me throw up i know im gonna get flamed badly for this.what if it was rape though what then? i think it should be ok for women to get abortions.cuz sum ppl just arent ready for parenthood.i think they were trying to manipulate us though just like in that peta video

woop tang
06-05-2006, 05:21 PM
Life's a precious gift if you realize you're alive. People should worry more about kids suffering and dying of hunger in undeveloped countries than about fetuses who don't realize they exist. Mind over matter.

exactly

risewiththetanner
06-06-2006, 03:36 PM
that was biased but it is a reality and life is gods gift and it is not our right to take it away

bdc666666
06-06-2006, 04:51 PM
fucking idiots, its ok to kill a life before it comes out of the women, but if it comes out and you kill it well then thats a tottally diffrent story!... how this makes sense? i dunno.... fucking idiots(anyone who supports abortion)

wolfgang
06-07-2006, 01:50 AM
listen to everybody posting that supported abortion-its only okay when the embryo is a tiny bundle of cells that has no concious thought or recognition that its alive. it has the same mental capacity as a rock^^

The_Clash911
06-09-2006, 08:30 PM
See, the thing is you cant really make abortion illegal, because there has to be an exception.Like to say if the mother was going to die during pregnancy, the baby would die during it, it would be in a vegetable state and so on and so forth.I am pro-life but everything has exceptions.
listen to everybody posting that supported abortion-its only okay when the embryo is a tiny bundle of cells that has no concious thought or recognition that its alive. it has the same mental capacity as a rock^^Yeah but does a rock grow up, have kids and die and keep this world going? Yeah thought so.
fucking idiots, its ok to kill a life before it comes out of the women, but if it comes out and you kill it well then thats a tottally diffrent story!... how this makes sense? i dunno.... fucking idiots(anyone who supports abortion)
I dont know why, but i really hate you.
ughhh i sat through all of that so i could get my facts straight before i posted but all they showed was body parts.that was sick it didnt make me sad it just made me throw up i know im gonna get flamed badly for this.what if it was rape though what then? i think it should be ok for women to get abortions.cuz sum ppl just arent ready for parenthood.i think they were trying to manipulate us though just like in that peta videoLike I stated above, everything has exceptions, and I believe rape is one of them.

oopmahs
06-09-2006, 08:54 PM
Man...........That was worse than any horror film, any internet shock site....I'm just completely repulsed by that. I do support anit-abortion, but at the same time, that's not how to go about it. The whole way they presented this video, just disgusted me. I felt the ending scene was totally uncalled for and completely disrespectful to the parents and the fetus itself.
I.......I can't even make a stand on this issue anymore...it's just too shameful to watch such an abomity. I don't know what's worse, the fetus being killed....or the intolerance of this video....

MetalPig
06-18-2006, 06:24 AM
Well I just joined up, and I must say, I've had quite the time reading through some of the political forum.

As for abortion, I am for it, within a certain timespan that is.

Furthermore, I thought one was now adays declared clinically dead when loosing all reaction to stimuli upon the brain, while this will most likely support pro-lifers more it's still a fun thing to think about.

As a more jokingly part, how about instead of abortion you just kill the guy getting you pregnant? Now such a law would raise all hell, why not do that?
It would regulate world populace, and mainly I do believe as we guys mainly act on sexual impulses more often than girls do, that we have the responsibility.

TheDudeFromGTA3
06-21-2006, 08:00 PM
damn that made me hungry for some beef. but yeah abortion is one of those multi sided issues. you cant be against or for it completely. there are always special circumstances. if the girl was just a slut and she got pregnant its her duty to keep it but if she cant then it would be more evil to keep it and raise a fucked up child that will grow up to be some serial killer. anyway man this world is getting over populated theres no need to keep unwanted children.

igrindtwinkies
11-08-2006, 02:02 PM
South Dakota just voted no on the abortion amendment!!!!!!!:)

leavemealone
11-08-2006, 02:33 PM
Abortion sucks. that was sad.

seanb
11-08-2006, 03:15 PM
Dude, abortion kicks ass. I had my bitch get one the other day.

But yeah

rights of women > rights of fetus

littleman
12-04-2006, 02:29 PM
Before I put out my opinion I will say that I didn't watch that video (windows media player sucks) but I bet they just put together the nastiest abortion pictures and footage. And I think that medical science should come up with a for sure procedure that is clean and painless for the mother and the fetus.

So think about this. We, as a country, are trying to lawfully CONTROL every woman's body. So we're taking her right to decide whether that baby that she may have had should come out of her tummy. It's her body. We have no right to take her right to decide away.

ohioskater
12-15-2006, 02:20 PM
you all view those who get abortions as terrible human beings. The kid could have been the next hitler, on the other hand he could have been the next martin luther king, we simply dont know. I think abortion is their choice, wrong or right. If you make it legal, there will be women having it done illegally, which isnt even safe. Yes its wrong, yes its fucked up, but its better legal.

n0tap0ser,n0tapr0
12-15-2006, 02:29 PM
Dude, abortion kicks ass. I had my bitch get one the other day.

But yeah

rights of women > rights of fetus
you get a thrill out of killing a fetus? that is terrible.

wolfgang
12-15-2006, 05:08 PM
Yeah but does a rock grow up, have kids and die and keep this world going? Yeah thought so.

That argument is good if you judge a things rights by what it might become, which is fine-i personally don't thats all.

In a rather twisted analogy-if you knew that in 9 months rocks would evolve and gain thoughts and feelings, would that stop you from destroying that same rock if it threatened to ruin you life?

Tomk911
01-12-2007, 09:33 PM
Abortion is wrong but so are many other things. Adoption should be an answer for that baby instead of being killed. Imagine if the baby was not aborted and you told him/her when he was older he was going to be killed as a fetus...pretty sure he/she wouldnt want that. Imagine if there was no life either. Life's a gift and taking it away is fucked up. If you got pregnant it's your fault.

thefucingchamp
01-13-2007, 01:35 AM
+1 to Klausfloride for his posts in here.

Klausfloride
01-13-2007, 07:32 AM
+1 to Klausfloride for his posts in here.

Haha, my post are like stars, the light doesn't reach to like four months after i have posted them.

And i think the word "pro-choice" is too sensative. I go with shirts that say "Pro-abortion". I don't care about women, I just want to kill some babies.

$k@teb0@rd
01-16-2007, 12:21 PM
you should of put a warning label on this...some of the things in this video were disturbing. idk how people could do an abortion that's mean!

KickFlip65
01-16-2007, 12:22 PM
It is pretty sad,but not being able to take care of youre child and neglecting it is also very sad.

Levitate78
01-16-2007, 12:28 PM
what kind of person could do this to their baby. people should learn to just put them up for adoption.