Life and the universe, how did it really begin?

[Skateselect]

This has been bothering me for a long time. I cant truly give myself an answer to this.

The Big Bang Theory: states that the universe was formed by a concentrated mass of particles that expanded, but where did they come from? its infeasible and illogical to think that they were just always there. and you can keep going on, because if nothing was there, what could of initiated the beginning of, well, space? I cant comprehend how this would work. Things begin as the result of something else, and without something to start it, this doesn't make sense to me.

The God version: whatever god from whatever religion created the world, and maybe the universe, etc. but where did the god come from. same problem as the big bang theory for me.

It seems to me that our life is actually something that is illogical and shouldn't be able/have been able to happen

[adude113]

Don't forget that those two ideas can be compatible.

[Iskatehard]

Yeah.. I strongly believe there is some spiritual substance to us.. But I also agree with a lot of scientific explanations as to why some things are the way they are.

Can't say much though.. Shit.. We know there are flaws in common religious/spiritual theories.. But to be completely fair, there are a lot of flaws in scientific theories, and some things there are simply no numbers or facts to apply to try to understand the method to it.

But, I touched on a bit in my thread titled "My philosophy".. But as for how it all began.. Shit.. I don't know. But I do believe there was a fair amount of contributions from both science, if you will.. And religion/spiritual value, if you will....

And while we can't comprehend it considering how our lives work here on Earth.. There's a possibility there was no great "Begin".. You can go as far back as you want.. And you'll find events before that.. And then events before that.. And it's endless....

[Relisch]

well god was just there. i know that sounds ridiculous but if you have Christian faith you believe it

[Brick]

This is probably the question that I struggle the most with. I'm raised as a Catholic so Im meant to believe that God created the universe and everything in it, but the further I venture into Science the more I see that side of the story and how that makes sense too. I do believe in a higher power, just this question puzzles me.

[Skateselect]

well god was just there. i know that sounds ridiculous but if you have Christian faith you believe it
im being raised a christian, but i keep it separate from my philosophical beliefs. what you brought up is one of my only real problems with Christianity, and it can really only be solved by faith

[salvemaster]

Maybe it didn't begin. Maybe this, everything, is just a nothing; an omnipotent psychedelic illusion manifested by a massive intellectual, concentrated, radioactive, hydroelectric sphere of nothingness. Maybe through and amongst all the arid space in an infinite vacuum, an odd ball of perceptual something emerged and spawned a cyclic dream of consciousness that grew to what we call life. But maybe big bang, hell if I know lol.

Edit 1) I think my idea might have been lost in my use of ridiculously off-topic analogies. Basically, i really just can't believe this stuff started at all, and if i can't allow myself to believe that it started, i can't allow myself to believe that it exists; because everything that exists (by definition) has a beginning.

[Skateselect]

Edit 1) I think my idea might have been lost in my use of ridiculously off-topic analogies. Basically, i really just can't believe this stuff started at all, and if i can't allow myself to believe that it started, i can't allow myself to believe that it exists; because everything that exists (by definition) has a beginning.
its an idea thats tough to accept if you dont have at least a personal answer to it

[salvemaster]

its an idea thats tough to accept if you dont have at least a personal answer to it


Then again it's tough to have a personal answer if you don't accept the idea.

[Skateselect]

agreed

[Roboman]

This has been bothering me for a long time. I cant truly give myself an answer to this.

The Big Bang Theory: states that the universe was formed by a concentrated mass of particles that expanded, but where did they come from? its infeasible and illogical to think that they were just always there. and you can keep going on, because if nothing was there, what could of initiated the beginning of, well, space? I cant comprehend how this would work. Things begin as the result of something else, and without something to start it, this doesn't make sense to me.

The God version: whatever god from whatever religion created the world, and maybe the universe, etc. but where did the god come from. same problem as the big bang theory for me.

Well, god gets around that problem by always having existed.
The big bang gets around that problem by not having any "when" before the bang. Time started at that moment, so there's no issue with it just haning around, waiting for it to happen.

They're actually sort of similar.

[salvemaster]

Well, god gets around that problem by always having existed.
The big bang gets around that problem by not having any "when" before the bang. Time started at that moment, so there's no issue with it just haning around, waiting for it to happen.

They're actually sort of similar.


It's easy to answer questions, but it's hard to answer them accurately. They're similar in that both answer the question, but then again neither rely on any form of common sense. Here's a theory: 'The Great Big Fucking Titty Fuck.' So basically in this idea, this gigantic titty gets fucked and the end result is the universe and the beginning of life, time and eternity.

Now that story makes no sense partially because i'm reasonably drunk, but also because that's what mankind does when he is faced with a question he doesn't know the answer to. He even made a word for it, 'hypothesis' - an educated guess; in other words, 'a stab in the dark'.

My opinion? Both ideas are shit, it's not possible to know (at least in terms of human knowledge) the nature of the creation of the universe. Except for the great big fucking titty fuck, that's quite plausible.

[Roboman]

^ To answer them 'accurately' is a difficult thing to do when talking about philosophy.

But answering them accurately is even more difficult when I'm trying to avoid making a long post :-)

[Skateselect]

^ To answer them 'accurately' is a difficult thing to do when talking about philosophy.

But answering them accurately is even more difficult when I'm trying to avoid making a long post :-)
go for it. long post are all but encouraged in philosophy

[!ndie $kater]

I believe in the theories of evolution and the the big bang, but i also believe that there is some creator out there, that made all of it happen. Not in the form of any God we've imagined, but out there

Maybe as humans right now, we aren't capable of understanding how it all started. maybe in millions of years, humans will have evolved into more intelligent life forms, where we can understand how there was first nothing, then everything

[I'M_NOOBTASTIC]

I believe we will never find out. We have to deal with it and just leave it unknown.

[codycantskate]

to be fair here theres no Right awnser i see what you mean something cant come out of nothing and LIFE itselff IS highily illogical.

[!ndie $kater]

^how so?

[Iskatehard]

I think he's referring to that it doesn't make sense for something non-living to create life on it's own. And I guess you could question that.. But I mean, from every single thing we've been able to observe on Earth (and since it's the only place with life we are aware of, it's all we can really go on)... The case is you have to have life to produce life.

So, that itself makes it illogical to consider the idea of life not existing at one point, and then coming to existence thanks to combination of elements and such on their own.

I think that's what he meant, anyway, personally. And that's a big issue I have myself when I consider the current proposed reasons as to how everything began..

[Skateselect]

I think he's referring to that it doesn't make sense for something non-living to create life on it's own. And I guess you could question that.. But I mean, from every single thing we've been able to observe on Earth (and since it's the only place with life we are aware of, it's all we can really go on)... The case is you have to have life to produce life.

So, that itself makes it illogical to consider the idea of life not existing at one point, and then coming to existence thanks to combination of elements and such on their own.

I think that's what he meant, anyway, personally. And that's a big issue I have myself when I consider the current proposed reasons as to how everything began..
that's part of what i meant. life from no life, something from nothing, i cant give myself an good, reasoned answer

[xLucky7]

well god was just there. i know that sounds ridiculous but if you have Christian faith you believe it
Yea thats just what i was gonna say..

[Iskatehard]

I think faith should have at least SOME reasoning behind it. But that's just me. I would think even if you had faith in certain religions, and believed in God.. You'd still question where god started at some time or another.. Maybe there are ideas concerning it that I haven't heard.. But eh, all I ever get is answers along the lines of "because".. So it kind of makes it odd...

Especially if you're going to preach it, y'know? I mean.. If you believe it, cool. But how can you try to explain it to somebody if you can't put any sound reasoning to the natural questions surrounding it?

[UrMomSkatesMongo]

Well, really, we (humans) created our theorys. We created every word we use, and their definitions. We created the world. We did not create life (including plants) itself, or the planets, or the universe, or any of the gases we breathe. But everything else, we did create. We created our own understandings of the creation of life itself.

In my opinion, the human mind would just collapse after knowing how everything started, if there was a start at all. I do not fully agree with any theory, scientific or religious. Yes, it is possible that there is a God, and yes it is possible that gases just randomly created the universe. But there is no answer (as far as we know).

And there is no answer in our world, because our world is based on languages and beleifs that we created on our own. Because of this, we cannot connect to the origins of the universe, because, like I said, we created everything. Unless God himself comes down and explains, we will not know.

But, I also think there could be an answer in space. We cannot even begin to grasp how large the universe is. It's an endless pool of knowledge. And it is why I am so interested in astrology and cosmology.

But in the end, we will never know.

This obviously isnt anything you can debate, because, like I said, there no answer (as far as we know.)




im terrible at explaining things, so i doubt any of you understood that

[Iskatehard]

Well, really, we (humans) created our theorys. We created every word we use, and their definitions. We created the world. We did not create life (including plants) itself, or the planets, or the universe, or any of the gases we breathe. But everything else, we did create. We created our own understandings of the creation of life itself.

In my opinion, the human mind would just collapse after knowing how everything started, if there was a start at all. I do not fully agree with any theory, scientific or religious. Yes, it is possible that there is a God, and yes it is possible that gases just randomly created the universe. But there is no answer (as far as we know).

And there is no answer in our world, because our world is based on languages and beleifs that we created on our own. Because of this, we cannot connect to the origins of the universe, because, like I said, we created everything. Unless God himself comes down and explains, we will not know.

But, I also think there could be an answer in space. We cannot even begin to grasp how large the universe is. It's an endless pool of knowledge. And it is why I am so interested in astrology and cosmology.

But in the end, we will never know.

This obviously isnt anything you can debate, because, like I said, there no answer (as far as we know.)




im terrible at explaining things, so i doubt any of you understood that

You really touched on some good topics in that post.. But I kind of feel like responding to a few.

You're probably right that if we somehow figured it out (and accepted it) it would result in a collapse of a lot of ideas floating around today, if you will.. But would that be good? Would that just lead to them being replaced with more ideas and theories that can't be explained?

Really, if we figured it out and broke it down to the start.. As odd as it sounds, we'd still say we don't really know shit about it. We'd still create questions with answers that seemed outside the realm of possibility for answering.. I think no matter what we know, we'll still come up with questions to try to take things further.

I'm pretty sure that there is an "answer". Either it's a theory waiting to get proved (sure, I don't think it will happen. And said theory might not even 'exist' yet!) or the simple statement "there was no start"...

I certainly agree with your bit about how big the universe is... And your reasoning in interest is very similar to my own. Though I have to admit.. Thinking about it, even while I know I'm nowhere NEAR grasping reality.. It's sort of disheartening in a few ways.. You ever get that, if I may ask?

But I would disagree with your final bit about it's not debatable because it's seemingly without answer. That's why it's worth debating, I think. As far as we know, there isn't a right or wrong, as everyone has said.. So we might as well pitch ideas, eh?

[UrMomSkatesMongo]

But I would disagree with your final bit about it's not debatable because it's seemingly without answer. That's why it's worth debating, I think. As far as we know, there isn't a right or wrong, as everyone has said.. So we might as well pitch ideas, eh?

Well, what i mean is, we really cannot debate what is right and what is wrong, because there is nowhere near enough support on any side of the debate; only ideas.



I certainly agree with your bit about how big the universe is... And your reasoning in interest is very similar to my own. Though I have to admit.. Thinking about it, even while I know I'm nowhere NEAR grasping reality.. It's sort of disheartening in a few ways.. You ever get that, if I may ask?


and im sorry, but what do you mean by this

im really tired and i cant think straight :l

[Roboman]

^ You can debate with just ideas. Not all debates are based on facts.

[UrMomSkatesMongo]

^ You can debate with just ideas. Not all debates are based on facts.

well i just dont see a point in debating with beliefs that arnt based on facts, because it will never lead to a conclusion.

but i dont know anything about serious debating, so i could be wrong

[bigguh_nigguh]

nigguh i think god creating shit isnt really the begginning of everything . i think its either a continuation of something that happened before anything we know. or just that the concepts of time and perception were created when the big bang happened, and that just cuz time and perception didn't exist before creation doesn't mean it doesn't mean nothing existed at all. i think that really something happened before reality was created thet created reality, but the thing that happened before was real. like to us we cant comprehend it because we were created in time and perception and therefore can't imagine anything without it. but i think something went down before our sense of reality was created that we could never understand.

[iamtheyeti]

wat

[bigguh_nigguh]

wat

ok nigguh lemme dumb it down for you. ok so i think that before creation, before time and space and perception and the basic universe were created, the reality before that was different. like there was no time or space or perception or even universe, but some other kind of reality. and in that reality something happened that triggered the big bang (or something happened to make god to decied to create the basics of reality, time, space, and the universe.) thus reality as we know it was born. and thats what i think happened.
gl

[Iskatehard]

Well, what i mean is, we really cannot debate what is right and what is wrong, because there is nowhere near enough support on any side of the debate; only ideas.




and im sorry, but what do you mean by this

im really tired and i cant think straight :l

Ideas are all we can really use to conclude on a large bit of things.. When there isn't enough facts to define something, we create ideas to do the rest. That's what debate does.

And what I mean by it being somewhat disheartening.. You can look into the sky and just see a seemingly endless place with unlimited possibilities in it. It's a real shame that it seems all we can really do is just stare up at it, rather than actually explore it for ourselves..

[UrMomSkatesMongo]

Ideas are all we can really use to conclude on a large bit of things.. When there isn't enough facts to define something, we create ideas to do the rest. That's what debate does.

And what I mean by it being somewhat disheartening.. You can look into the sky and just see a seemingly endless place with unlimited possibilities in it. It's a real shame that it seems all we can really do is just stare up at it, rather than actually explore it for ourselves..

oh hell yes, i know what you mean.

most of us just look at the sky and say "ok, its blue and i see clouds."

but when i look at the sky, i think about how far im actually looking, and whats really out there, and all that stuff, and it really just makes you feel weird.

[CTskater94]

ive actually heard theories about two universes in the multiverse colliding to form our universe.


personally i think it was way too complicated for humans to conceive, and we are hopeless to find the true solution

[UrMomSkatesMongo]

ive actually heard theories about two universes in the multiverse colliding to form our universe.


personally i think it was way too complicated for humans to conceive, and we are hopeless to find the true solution


but what formed those two universes?

[I'M_NOOBTASTIC]

It's left to the unknown. We just have to face it and and say, "I don't know."

(That's statement is excluding evolution.)

[CTskater94]

but what formed those two universes?

thats not what i believe so i dont know all the information behind it. all of questions concerning the universes begining have no answers. all answers so far have just lead to more questions.

[UrMomSkatesMongo]

thats not what i believe so i dont know all the information behind it. all of questions concerning the universes begining have no answers. all answers so far have just lead to more questions.


well im just saying that "this universe was created by two universes..." just asks the exact same question

[Iskatehard]

well im just saying that "this universe was created by two universes..." just asks the exact same question

Well, every single possible answer is going to pose the same question as that.

The way we naturally look at it, we're asking what the universe is a product of. What caused this to exist.

ANY answer to a question like that is going to pose the same "where did that come from then?" bit of questioning.. So it almost is pointless on it's own to ask what started the universe. Perhaps just think ahead and ask what started whatever started the universe, and then what started that, and that? But eh, of course, that question doesn't make sense because we don't know what we're asking about specifically.. But I don't think there is anything, honestly. I don't think there was a beginning. And there wont be an end.

[UrMomSkatesMongo]

Well, every single possible answer is going to pose the same question as that.

The way we naturally look at it, we're asking what the universe is a product of. What caused this to exist.

ANY answer to a question like that is going to pose the same "where did that come from then?" bit of questioning.. So it almost is pointless on it's own to ask what started the universe. Perhaps just think ahead and ask what started whatever started the universe, and then what started that, and that? But eh, of course, that question doesn't make sense because we don't know what we're asking about specifically.. But I don't think there is anything, honestly. I don't think there was a beginning. And there wont be an end.

yes i agree fully

and idk why i thought of this, but asking questions like this is kind of like story-telling

[Iskatehard]

Haha, for sure about the story telling part. But that kind of worries me.. It seems like we're trying to set it up in a fashion which is similar to the beginning and ends we see in things here on Earth.

However, I'm pretty sure the nature of it all is pretty unique, and there isn't anything on Earth that resembles the nature of it all.. So I fear we're at a loss on comprehension, since there is really NOTHING that we could compare it to for the sake of trying to understand it.. Eh.

[Viva_La_Fiesta]

However, I'm pretty sure the nature of it all is pretty unique, and there isn't anything on Earth that resembles the nature of it all.. So I fear we're at a loss on comprehension, since there is really NOTHING that we could compare it to for the sake of trying to understand it.. Eh.

I totally agree with this.
If you guys are interested in looking into the scientific theories of it; look at Michio Kaku's books, he writes some good stuff.
I think really anything is possible. I mean, I myself believe in God and have my own theories which I won't bother to drag on and explain, but I'm open and believe anything could truly work in a situation like this. I mean, humanity can't know for sure about anything. When we (as a race) discovered and accepted that the Earth wasn't flat, it flipped our entire science around, so who's to say tommorow someone won't prove something scientifically that proves every scientific and mathematic law we thought we had down from before completely wrong?
Then again, maybe nothing exists. Maybe only I exist, and this forum and my entire life is a dream, and there is just a concious. Maybe I don't exist, and only you exist, but you would never know.
One theory of how our universe was created is that an alien race existing in a seperate universe discovered that their universe was going to end, so they created ours to live in and we are a by-product (this one's a long shot, I know, but still interesting).
One theory about God is that, when tribes started to cease to be nomadic, people were at a loss with how to decide a leader, so these people made God up, and then proclaimed themselves leader because God told them to.
I was raised Catholic, but, my parents told me I could believe in and follow any religion I liked. They just wanted me to become a confirmed Catholic so if I met a Catholic girl who wanted to get married in church I could. I've found that, after analyzing myself and my past and present thoughts, religious people who base everything on faith only do that because they are scared of the unknown, and don't want the slightest chance of the reality that they, thier parents, and older role models convinced them during thier whole life questioned or broken. I used to convince myself for sure my Catholic God existed, but then eventually, as I got older, I found that in order to keep up with my principals I had to stop kidding myself, and contradict and question myself.
I don't want to offend any Catholics, Chrisitians, or Religious at all, as I said I do believe in a God myself, but I truly believe that you have to be at least open and considering that something besides your theory could be correct, because you don't KNOW for sure anything.

I hope at least one person reads the whole thing ;)

[Iskatehard]

I read it all, haha.

It's nice to see somebody "religious" (if you will, I use that term lightly) using reasoning to support their beliefs rather than blindly following it because they're told it's right.

Not say it's right or wrong.. Because, fuck.. I can't! But it's a nice change of pace compared to usual conversations, and that's cool..


And about the whole "maybe I'm a dream, maybe you're a dream"..

I thought about that a few years back and remember it bugged me for a little bit. I guess I was bothered personally that I could question my own existence.

I understand some people can and will still argue about it. And that's cool.. But if there is anything I can ever be positive of.. And I mean 100%.. It's that I exist. Might sound bad because I might not be able to say I'm 100% confident YOU exist, or something else exists (that might sound stupid, sorry). But dammit, I do.

Shit.. Haha, I almost feel lame for saying that. And I almost feel introverted for it, but I know I'm not and it's all good.

[Skateselect]

haha it was really weird for me when i realized that our whole reality may just be the fragment of something elses thought.

whats really weird is how i came across this idea. i was doing an ela test in 3rd grade, and after reading a short story there was a question that asked what the theme of the story was, and one of the choices was "the world is really just part of a duck's dream."

obviously not the correct answer, but it gave me a lot to think about as an 8 year old

[Iskatehard]

Hahaha, I don't even know if I could have realized what that answer really suggested at the age of 8..

Surely at the end of Men in Black where you see the galaxy in some marble, with a collection of other marbles beside it got some o.o looks from kids.. I remember seeing it in theaters and being like "wooah"

[Skateselect]

i always kind of looked at things deeper, not like completely spacing out or something, i guess the right word should be thoughtful, but that basically means kind or nice now. but whatever. contemplative, maybe?
im just glad theres a place to spill all my thoughts now haha

[Viva_La_Fiesta]

IBut if there is anything I can ever be positive of.. And I mean 100%.. It's that I exist. Might sound bad because I might not be able to say I'm 100% confident YOU exist, or something else exists (that might sound stupid, sorry). But dammit, I do.

Shit.. Haha, I almost feel lame for saying that. And I almost feel introverted for it, but I know I'm not and it's all good.

Exactly how I feel. I mean, I know at least my concsious (sp?) exists, because I have one. But I don't know if you do, and you don't know that I do.

Edit: And the Men in Black thing really got me thinking when I saw it too, haha.

[salvemaster]

I just had this thought, and it doesn't really make sense or answer the question, but it's just an idea.

What if the universe/life never began? What if it's only continuing?

Like maybe in a couple hundred years, humans will be able to comprehend the idea that not everything has to have a beginning to be present, if that makes sense?

[Skateselect]

I just had this thought, and it doesn't really make sense or answer the question, but it's just an idea.

What if the universe/life never began? What if it's only continuing?

Like maybe in a couple hundred years, humans will be able to comprehend the idea that not everything has to have a beginning to be present, if that makes sense?
im not sure humans will still be around in a couple hundred years

[salvemaster]

^ Haha, prolly not. Fuck it, i'm sursprised we're still around today.

[PartyMoshSkate]

well if you take the Christian route(as a christian, i'm saying this) you don't believe that God was created because he was ALWAYS there. it's VERY hard to grasp/believe, but essentially you have to believe god was always there and created everything

[salvemaster]

well if you take the Christian route(as a christian, i'm saying this) you don't believe that God was created because he was ALWAYS there. it's VERY hard to grasp/believe, but essentially you have to believe god was always there and created everything

Honestly, i don't think it's possible to grasp. I mean, it's simple human nature to assume everything will trail back to some form of beginning or ignition. I'm not saying we can't believe it, i'm saying we can't understand it.

Believing and understanding are two different things, believing actually makes sense.

[dt23]

i think this is a big dream lmao and i wanna know if there like other people like us out in the universe cause thats pretty weird we the only ones -_-