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bush pig
09-29-2007, 08:21 PM
Like I love metal (in most cases), but why is it that most popular metal band members have to be considered the bees knees in music. Im certainly not saying that I hate metal, I do, just to clarify

Keep in mind im talking about certain parts of metal, not every underground black metal band and how "insanely sick their guitarist is".

Im not saying any band is bad here, and its my opinion and you have your opinion of me, my 'point' etc. Doesn't mean anyone in particular is correct here.

almost_a_user_name
09-29-2007, 08:22 PM
untrue

Marevix
09-29-2007, 08:37 PM
What the fuck are you talking about?

Ynot
09-29-2007, 08:49 PM
the bees knees?? hahaha

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
09-29-2007, 08:53 PM
Have you listened to metal? I mean really listened to it..

Listen to Nile.. thats mind blowing musicianship as well as hella thought out and intelligent lyrics.

Then listen to Origin.. probably one of the fastest bands out there and have amazing/tight musicianship.

Or listen to Mercyful Fate.. those lead licks and solos are untouchable.

Or listen to the solos in Deicide.. they all have a classical sound/style as well as good clean technique(well on the Scars Of The Crucifix album).

There are a shitload of amazing musicians and most of them happen to be in metal bands or are influenced by metal or have influenced metal(Jimi Hendrix).

Of course there are really good musicians in every form of music, and I don't agree that metal has all the best musicians, but at the same time you have to really listen to good metal to get it. Once I realized it, I was hooked on metal ever since.

AScentOfBlood
09-29-2007, 09:05 PM
Most people consider metal musicians as "people who can only play power chords, do one drum beat etc."

BailBoarder
09-29-2007, 09:36 PM
i think he is referring to the days of hair metal, where if you had a metal band, you were a god.

bush pig
09-29-2007, 10:31 PM
i think he is referring to the days of hair metal, where if you had a metal band, you were a god.

Yes, as well as metalcore, nu metal etc.

Thats, why I said majority . Although im not saying that those genres I just listed as a majority of metal. Pretty much

I should've classified what certain branch of metal I was talking about though.

Yuuki
09-29-2007, 10:58 PM
i always think of metal muisicians to be good because of the mind blowing solos, choruses, licks that i come to expect from a good metal band.

riskitforabiscuit
09-30-2007, 12:43 AM
Metal is one of the most technically demanding styles of rock music.

killyourfamily
09-30-2007, 12:50 AM
Yes, metal needs every member to be in unison with one another and work together. Not to mention the amount of skill you need to have to play metal songs.

AScentOfBlood
09-30-2007, 12:52 AM
That honestly goes for most music though ^^^

killyourfamily
09-30-2007, 03:02 AM
Yes, it goes for most music as they all need to play as one, but with metal they are play harder/faster/more badass so it is alot harder. Therefore they need to be much better at what they do.

Ipswitch
09-30-2007, 06:17 AM
Hahaha. I'm just going to stay out of this thread...

fallenrider
09-30-2007, 06:19 AM
never heard that in my life...

Snowskate to Destiny
09-30-2007, 06:22 AM
Because the fans are close minded?

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
09-30-2007, 07:55 AM
Hahaha. I'm just going to stay out of this thread...


Kinda failed by posting in it.

Ipswitch
09-30-2007, 07:59 AM
Kinda failed by posting in it.



Go listen to some blast beats, twat.

Hewlett
09-30-2007, 08:01 AM
pwnt

Vivica
09-30-2007, 08:44 AM
Go listen to some blast beats, twat.

Haha, zing.
As funny as that post was though, i think i'd disagree with what you'd say on this subject.
I don't like alot of metal, i quite alot of metal very bland.

Musicianship is more than just technical ability, its an art form, and thus can be interpreted in many different ways, i think the reason it may seem that most people think metal musicians are the best musicians in the world is because the people you're likely to associate with don't think that way.

Example; I'm currently listening to Impaled... pretty awesome metal... But.. (WOW, as if by magic Pendulum was the next artist on... that was weird, i was just about to reference then!) ... at the same time, last night i was listening to the radio and was blown away by some of the drum and bass that was being played.
It doesn't take insane fingers or feet to make... but it defiantly takes a huge amount of musicianship, artistic flare and ambition.

When it comes down to it, music is what you make of it, end of ramble.

Fudopi
09-30-2007, 08:48 AM
It takes more talent to produce metal over more types of music. Because in metal, you are playing a guitar and lyrics at the same time which very few people can do. In rap for example, anybody can make a few rhymes, it's just who make's good computerized beats are good rappers. In country, you are playing a very slow guitar, while in metal you are playing amazingly quick, while singing.

Marevix
09-30-2007, 08:55 AM
It takes more talent to produce metal over more types of music. Because in metal, you are playing a guitar and lyrics at the same time which very few people can do. In rap for example, anybody can make a few rhymes, it's just who make's good computerized beats are good rappers. In country, you are playing a very slow guitar, while in metal you are playing amazingly quick, while singing.

You're forgetting (good) jazz and neoclassical music, both of which are often more difficult to play/write.

My stance on this? Virtuoso metal is better than decent jazz, virtuoso jazz is better than decent metal, and so on with every other genre (excluding rap/hip-hop and pop, which require virtually no instrumental skill).

JerseySucks
09-30-2007, 09:02 AM
Have you listened to metal? I mean really listened to it..

Listen to Nile.. thats mind blowing musicianship as well as hella thought out and intelligent lyrics.

Then listen to Origin.. probably one of the fastest bands out there and have amazing/tight musicianship.

Or listen to Mercyful Fate.. those lead licks and solos are untouchable.

Or listen to the solos in Deicide.. they all have a classical sound/style as well as good clean technique(well on the Scars Of The Crucifix album).

There are a shitload of amazing musicians and most of them happen to be in metal bands or are influenced by metal or have influenced metal(Jimi Hendrix).

Of course there are really good musicians in every form of music, and I don't agree that metal has all the best musicians, but at the same time you have to really listen to good metal to get it. Once I realized it, I was hooked on metal ever since.

I hope you are kidding. Nile is probably the most boring band I have ever heard. Generic crap with too much double bass, inaudible growling that takes no skill what-so-ever, and generally just sounds like noise. There is no point of having intelligent lyrics when there is no way someone could understand what hes saying without reading it on paper, all you hear is ROARRRRRRR. All the song I heard from them had no melody, just really fast drumming and technical guitar, which just comes out sounding as noise.

Ipswitch
09-30-2007, 09:05 AM
I hope you are kidding. Nile is probably the most boring band I have ever heard. Generic crap with too much double bass, inaudible growling that takes no skill what-so-ever, and generally just sounds like noise. There is no point of having intelligent lyrics when there is no way someone could understand what hes saying without reading it on paper, all you hear is ROARRRRRRR.


Thats how all metal sounds to me.

Vivica
09-30-2007, 09:11 AM
I agree with him, Nile are tripe, one of my least favourite metal bands of all time, i'd rather listen to Papa Roach than Nile :-!?

But at the same time Ipswitch, the reason all metal sounds like that it because you don't have an ear for it.
If you ever really get into metal you get an ear for it, and hear so much more in the genre that you may have never noticed.

...He says as Cryptopsy's "Dead and Dripping" comes on.

Marevix
09-30-2007, 09:13 AM
Thats how all metal sounds to me.

How (http://youtube.com/watch?v=igkzTGsqMQU)?

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
09-30-2007, 09:18 AM
I hope you are kidding. Nile is probably the most boring band I have ever heard. Generic crap with too much double bass, inaudible growling that takes no skill what-so-ever, and generally just sounds like noise. There is no point of having intelligent lyrics when there is no way someone could understand what hes saying without reading it on paper, all you hear is ROARRRRRRR. All the song I heard from them had no melody, just really fast drumming and technical guitar, which just comes out sounding as noise.


Cause you're too retarded to really understand and actually hear whats going on?

You've obviously haven't heard enough songs.

Growling takes no skill? Tell that to the hundreds of people who blow out their voice every year because they couldn't do it right.

Ipswitch
09-30-2007, 09:24 AM
How (http://youtube.com/watch?v=igkzTGsqMQU)?


I'm talking about metal bands with growling and gay shit like that. That wasn't that bad. I mean, I wouldn't choose to listen to it, but its tolerable. It was pretty repeditive in the beginning, and it never really caught my attention throughout the song.

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
09-30-2007, 09:31 AM
Go listen to some blast beats, twat.



Bahaha. Once again you prove yourself to be a closed minded shit who fails at understanding music and lacks the mental ability it takes to comprehend what he's listening to and through that flaw dismisses metal as "noise" simply because he's too fuckin dumb to hear it for what it is and really notice whats going on as well as understand its point.
What I get from you is if music is a certain tempo.. its not longer music and just noise.. which is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

Ipswitch
09-30-2007, 09:35 AM
Bahaha. Once again you prove yourself to be a closed minded shit who fails at understanding music and lacks the mental ability it takes to comprehend what he's listening to and through that flaw dismisses metal as "noise" simply because he's too fuckin dumb to hear it for what it is and really notice whats going on as well as understand its point.
What I get from you is if music is a certain tempo.. its not longer music and just noise.. which is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.


Sweet run-on sentance. Thats what blast beats do to you...



Getting by being a metal drummer is so easy. Any drummer can join a metal band and have it be decent.

JerseySucks
09-30-2007, 09:36 AM
Cause you're too retarded to really understand and actually hear whats going on?

You've obviously haven't heard enough songs.

Growling takes no skill? Tell that to the hundreds of people who blow out their voice every year because they couldn't do it right.

Um no, I'm not too retarded to hear it, it's inaudible. Growling doesn't take any skill compared to actual singing. Screaming in music in one thing, but I don't know whos idea was it to start growling, a growl is a noise, not a way to sing.

SNES4Life
09-30-2007, 09:40 AM
Um no, I'm not too retarded to hear it, it's inaudible. Growling doesn't take any skill compared to actual singing. Screaming in music in one thing, but I don't know whos idea was it to start growling, a growl is a noise, not a way to sing.

I'm not really into a lot of bands that growl, but it does take skill. Just try growling for hours on end, harder than you think.

JerseySucks
09-30-2007, 09:41 AM
I'm not really into a lot of bands that growl, but it does take skill. Just try growling for hours on end, harder than you think.

Why would I want to, its inaudible and sounds like shit. that's like saying go on a highway and dodge cars for hours on end, even if you succeed it's pointless.

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
09-30-2007, 12:12 PM
Um no, I'm not too retarded to hear it, it's inaudible. Growling doesn't take any skill compared to actual singing. Screaming in music in one thing, but I don't know whos idea was it to start growling, a growl is a noise, not a way to sing.


So you're saying death metal would be good if they had a singer? There would be no death metal if there were no growling.. cause no other vocal style will fit, growling exists because(this may come to a shock to you) singing and screaming doesn't fit every form of music and one of the most important parts of music is that the vocals fit the style of music.. thats why there is growling. Plus, I can understand plenty of growling vocalists.
Believe it or not.. it is possible to pronounce words while growling vocals, thats the part that takes skill. ANYONE can just straight up sing(not necessarily good.. but sing), not everyone can growl or have the right voice to growl. Good growling vocals use the same technique as singing(in how they use the diaphragm, which is why everyone recommends you learn the breathing exercises of singing before doing growls).
Growling does take good skill and technique, plus your more likely to damage your voice growling than you are singing.. which adds to how much good skill and technique it takes.
Don't ignorantly dismiss growling as "nonsense noise" when you haven't the slightest clue what it takes or, obviously in your case, don't even use them.

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
09-30-2007, 12:15 PM
Why would I want to, its inaudible and sounds like shit. that's like saying go on a highway and dodge cars for hours on end, even if you succeed it's pointless.

The point is that it FITS THE MUSIC. Quit being closed minded.

flipuk
09-30-2007, 12:42 PM
Even if it takes skill to anyone who doesn't like metal they wouldn't see that, mainly because actual singing is much harder and has a far wider range.

JerseySucks
09-30-2007, 01:36 PM
So you're saying death metal would be good if they had a singer? There would be no death metal if there were no growling.. cause no other vocal style will fit, growling exists because(this may come to a shock to you) singing and screaming doesn't fit every form of music and one of the most important parts of music is that the vocals fit the style of music.. thats why there is growling. Plus, I can understand plenty of growling vocalists.
Believe it or not.. it is possible to pronounce words while growling vocals, thats the part that takes skill. ANYONE can just straight up sing(not necessarily good.. but sing), not everyone can growl or have the right voice to growl. Good growling vocals use the same technique as singing(in how they use the diaphragm, which is why everyone recommends you learn the breathing exercises of singing before doing growls).
Growling does take good skill and technique, plus your more likely to damage your voice growling than you are singing.. which adds to how much good skill and technique it takes.
Don't ignorantly dismiss growling as "nonsense noise" when you haven't the slightest clue what it takes or, obviously in your case, don't even use them.

I didn't say death metal would be good if it had a regular singer, way to put words in my mouth. I'm not even putting down death metal, I'm putting down inaudible growling bands like Nile do. There are a few death metal bands I have mild interest in, but I will never enjoy any bands that you can't understand anything they are saying, not even just because I'm not hearing the words, it just sounds gay. Stop kidding yourself, any person just listening to a Nile song will have absolutely no clue what the vocalist is saying. Maybe a fan like yourself who I can guarantee has looked up the lyrics more than one time will understand, but a person just listening to a couple songs will have no idea what they are saying. Singing takes skill because you actually hit different pitches and notes, with growling like the band Nile does, you stay at the same pitch and note the whole time, because when you produce a noise like a growl, there is no range to possibly hit different notes.

Popwar Pill
09-30-2007, 01:43 PM
Just because a lot of the shit they do is mind blowing

nwodafometsys
09-30-2007, 04:05 PM
Just because a lot of the shit they do is mind blowingHaha, yeah man.

Infact I've been listening to this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=IBgH97hxIfw) metal-ish band (im not sure about genres and all that booty), but im hooked on the Dead and Still In Pain breakdown, and the God Among The Waste breakdown, too.

Marevix
09-30-2007, 04:14 PM
I'm talking about metal bands with growling and gay shit like that. That wasn't that bad. I mean, I wouldn't choose to listen to it, but its tolerable. It was pretty repeditive in the beginning, and it never really caught my attention throughout the song.

The solo didn't catch your attention? This confuses me.

spanky_dan
09-30-2007, 06:37 PM
I only like a few metal bands, but overall I hate most of the genre. It spawns the most fucking annoying elitists.

Growling sounds fucking stupid.

liebherk
09-30-2007, 08:08 PM
Even if it takes skill to anyone who doesn't like metal they wouldn't see that, mainly because actual singing is much harder and has a far wider range.

quoted for truth.

growling has close to no aesthetic value anyway. Screaming I can understand, as it's cathartic and gives emphasis. As far as I can see, the only point of growling is to be hardcore and/or creep people out. And to fit death metal instrumentals, I guess.

haha, Maverix, I just noticed that the dancing banana emoticon has the sameh tempo as that video you posted.


Rage, what do you think of Converge?

liebherk
09-30-2007, 08:25 PM
It spawns the most fucking annoying elitists.

yeah, this too. Elitists of any breed suck, but the worst ones are metalheads ("lol j00 r pussy groe hare long n lern 2 headband") and classic rockers ("Anything made after 1975 sux teh ballzz")

In addition, people that are total metalheads are more likely to be less friendly.

Roboman
09-30-2007, 09:10 PM
I only like a few metal bands, but overall I hate most of the genre. It spawns the most fucking annoying elitists.

Growling sounds fucking stupid.

Haha, spot on. I dont know, metal relies a lot on technical ability, but that side of it gets focussed on way too much. Its when metal bands dare to throw in a bit of uniqueness and style that I like them.


yeah, this too. Elitists of any breed suck, but the worst ones are metalheads ("lol j00 r pussy groe hare long n lern 2 headband") and classic rockers ("Anything made after 1975 sux teh ballzz")

In addition, people that are total metalheads are more likely to be less friendly.

At least classic rockers are generally more likely to just dismiss what you have to say in favour of what they think, whereas many of the metal heads I've had run ins with are far more likely to have an argument (that almost without fail comes back to the technicality of metal, sort of disregarding the fact that I might not like the "sound" of it and the lack of creativity).

I mean I get bagged for the music I like sometimes. And I'm asking for it with some of the shit I listen to. I go for creativity and songwriting over technicality and exactness anyway so metal isn't gonna be my music of choice.

iplaydrums
10-01-2007, 02:05 AM
and classic rockers ("Anything made after 1975 sux teh ballzz")

And 90% of them don't know who Cream is.

riskitforabiscuit
10-01-2007, 02:23 AM
To each his own. Let's leave it at that.

bush pig
10-01-2007, 02:44 AM
Im merely asking a question why 12 year old kids may think for example Mark Morton is fantasic guitarist. Considering they arn't playing anything new and its all rehashed Pantera Riffs but now with added Gain and ego/self centered musicians. Im also well aware of what makes metal - metal.


And fuck you if you can't handle my opinion. Its ironc by saying im close minded but you won't accept my point of view.

Marevix
10-01-2007, 11:15 AM
growling has close to no aesthetic value anyway. Screaming I can understand, as it's cathartic and gives emphasis. As far as I can see, the only point of growling is to be hardcore and/or creep people out. And to fit death metal instrumentals, I guess.

I see growling as equally expressive as screaming when done properly. For me, it adds to the atmosphere of the music that it fits with. Aside from high pitched black metal-styled screaming, there isn't much else that would fit the morbid/evil lyrical concepts that death metal bands tend to use.

!@#$
10-01-2007, 11:27 AM
stop arguing about something completely subjective, fags
kay?

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
10-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Rage, what do you think of Converge?


They leave me feeling empty, bored, and depressed. Not what I really look for when listening to metal.

RageAgainstTheToyMachine
10-01-2007, 09:34 PM
stop arguing about something completely subjective, fags
kay?


Whats the point of a messageboard if you cant argue?

riskitforabiscuit
10-01-2007, 10:32 PM
The internet was made purely for pornography and arguments.

Ynot
10-02-2007, 02:31 PM
i think it's cause metal bands, unlike some other genres, focus on the musicianship of the music. now i'm not saying artists of other genres aren't talented(it's not easy to write a good song or a good rap), but metal focuses on the instrumentation more than some other genres would.

bush pig
10-02-2007, 02:48 PM
i think it's cause metal bands, unlike some other genres, focus on the musicianship of the music. now i'm not saying artists of other genres aren't talented(it's not easy to write a good song or a good rap), but metal focuses on the instrumentation more than some other genres would.

Not exactly. Vocals are just as important in any genre. That also goes with anyother strand of metal. If there wern't vocals in metal then the genre wouldn't have grown this far or popular in 20-30 years.

Ynot
10-02-2007, 02:59 PM
Not exactly. Vocals are just as important in any genre. That also goes with anyother strand of metal. If there wern't vocals in metal then the genre wouldn't have grown this far or popular in 20-30 years.
but there's still more of a focus on musicianship in metal than some other genres.